I’m Anxious About Closets: Tips, Resources, & Transcript (Episode 46)

I’m Anxious About Closets: Tips, Resources, & Transcript (Episode 46)

Having anxiety about closets may seem bizarre, but these tiny rooms in our houses are often jam-packed with emotions (and also lots of clothing).

Whether we are minimalists or a few more impulse buys away from appearing on an episode of Hoarders, few people can look into the abyss of a messy closet and leave unscathed.

In this episode, Chris and Allison discuss their baggage (sometimes literally) about closets, and it takes some surprising turns. From a screed against minimalism and the patriarchy to demonology to eating disorders, this episode goes for a wild ride.

I’m Anxious About Closets Because…

  • Closets can often be a source of clutter and stress. It’s where we put things we don’t want to look at, which tend to be things we want to procrastinate on. Therefore, looking at it and confronting it can make us anxious.
  • Closets also tend to be a sort of “purgatory” for objects we’re not using enough. This can make us think about being wasteful or not appreciative of our objects, lead us to beating ourselves up for our spending, make us ruminate about trend changes or weight fluctuations, etc.
  • Demons live in closets.

3 Tips If You Have Anxiety About Closets

  1. There is no right or wrong way to organize a closet, or a proper amount of clothing or objects to have. Minimalism is not a purer pursuit than having objects you love and treasure. The right way to organize your closet is the way that brings you the most joy and least suffering.
  2. Tackling a big closet clean up day can be a huge emotional event, especially if you have hang-ups about spending, waste, or body image. Rather than tackle the closet in one long, emotioanlly-charged day, tackling it bit by bit, a few minutes at a time, can chip away at the task without the emotional fallout.
  3. It’s probably best to not let a 9 year old watch as many horror movies as they like or they too will think demons reside in closets, despite having a Masters Degree in Education.

Resources & Mentions

IAA 46: I’m Anxious About Closets

Episode Description: We know what you’re thinking… “you’re anxious about closets, really, guys?” Well, we won’t deny that it’s ridiculous (especially Allison’s fear of literal closet demons — don’t let a 9-year-old watch whatever horror movies they want, or this is what you’ll get), but we will say that we think this episode is a lot of fun and goes to surprisingly deep places at times.

Chris & Allison discuss their non-metaphorical relationships with their closets, touching upon topics such as body image, self-identity, minimalism, organization, spending, and yes, actual demons.

SPEAKERS: Christopher Mitchell & Allison Green

Christopher Mitchell 0:01
Welcome to I’m Anxious About, a podcast where two friends commiserate about our respective anxieties on a new topic each week. I’m Christopher Mitchell.

Allison Green 0:10
And I’m Allison Green, and today we are anxious about closets.

So this is a bit of a silly episode. And that’s on purpose. Because last week, we recorded a rather heavy episode on change. And we are still recovering from processing change.

Christopher Mitchell 0:51
Mmhmm.

Allison Green 0:51
So we’re like, let’s go a little lighter this week and do something that’s a little bit more humorous, a little lighter in focus, but I’m sure we’ll probably find some demons, hopefully not literally in our closets, because that’s one of my things. But we’ll talk about that later.

Christopher Mitchell 1:06
both laugh

Setting you up. That’s dangling the carrot there so people stay for the episode. I suppose in effect, we’re looking for a change from our change episode. But I think that’s part of the fun of the podcast in general is that we can do all kinds of things with this. It’s just really a beautiful gift to be anxious about so many different things.

Allison Green 1:29
A gift I might like to return.

Christopher Mitchell 1:32
That’s true.

Allison Green 1:33
But not really, actually, it’s just so much a part of my personality and how I relate to the world that I don’t even view it as a illness or disability anymore, or like mental disorder not disability. I just kind of view it as like, this is who I am. And that’s just it.

Christopher Mitchell 1:53
Yeah, I understand that. I think there’s a lot of quirks that I have. You know, the truth is like, it depends on the day, right? I mean, there’s some days you wake up and you’re like this would be a much easier day if I wasn’t in anxiety paralysis, but I think… sorry, if you hear my cat in the background, he shares this, this office with me.

But anyways, I think there are some days where I’m like yeah, I could do without this. But I totally understand what you mean by the understanding that like some of these things have been, you know, it’s not like a new thing, right? It’s like something that you’ve been dealing with or contending with for many a year now.

And it’s hard to really separate it from your identity, which is why it’s kind of fun to laugh at this stuff, too. Because as much as last episode was about the difficulty of experiencing and going through change, I think this episode is easier to poke fun at some of the the absurdity of it all.

Allison Green 2:37
Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 2:37
But we always have a tendency of finding the deep in the shallow so I’m sure we’ll get there. So before we get there, everybody who listened to more than one episode will know that we always do a check in at the start of the episode that’s related to the episode. And this week, I want to ask you, Allison, on a scale of one to opening your closet door only to have everything come tumbling down on your head. Where are you at? With 10 of course being send help.

Allison Green 3:06
That situation. Yeah, send out an avalanche team.

Christopher Mitchell 3:11
laughs

Allison Green 3:12
All right, I guess I’m like a three or four, the last couple days haven’t been particularly kind to me in that… basically, I had a huge wrench thrown in my business plan. One of my biggest income streams and earners decided to just totally screw us out of nowhere talking about the of course, wonderfully ethical and absolutely wonderful company Airbnb. So they basically took advantage of bloggers, used us to prop us up over the course of their IPO launch and to get [them] through the pandemic and then unilaterally decided to just stop paying us as of one month from today when we’ve created content for free for them promoting their properties for the past year.

And so it just made me quite angry that a lot of work I’ve done over the last year feels very useless, I feel very irritated to be at the mercy of large corporations even though I … I thought that I was getting out of that by becoming an entrepreneur, but apparently not. And just kind of anger in general like the unfairness of just like these big guys who just think they can do whatever they want and it doesn’t matter.

So I’m just kind of feeling anxious about not really knowing the next step to take with my business because I was like pretty sure that I was doing good work with that, it was showing promise

Christopher Mitchell 4:42
Some results.

Allison Green 4:43
… in terms of offering me stability and you know, in a global pandemic, Airbnb is one of the few travel options that were performing well because it was, you know, a safe place where people could socially distance and do those sorts of things while still getting a break from their own set of walls slash home prison.

And yeah, it’s just frustrating. You know when you’re… when there are changes that you can’t control, going back to last week’s episode, and so just mostly pissed, but a little bit of a current of anxiety under the pissed, because for those who didn’t listen to the last week’s episode, I just moved back to the States, which means my cost of living just jillion-tupled compared to Sofia, Bulgaria, where I was living before..

Christopher Mitchell 5:30
I was thinking about jillion-tupled.

Allison Green 5:33
Yeah, yeah, I was like quintuple doesn’t feel right, jillion-tupled kind of feels more emotionally resonant at least.

Christopher Mitchell 5:41
And also, it sounds like the title of the next major children’s novel to really hit the charts.

Allison Green 5:48
Of course, it would be like almost like an Amelia Bedelia thing where her actual name is Jillian. And then her last name is Tuppled.

Christopher Mitchell 5:54
Yes, exactly.

Allison Green 5:55
Yeah, that would be a great idea for any of you children’s book authors who are feeling a little bit un-creative and just want to steal our idea. Go for it. I have no, no hopes of ever touching that.

Christopher Mitchell 6:08
laughs

Allison Green 6:08
And anyway, so just feeling a little bit anxious because of that. And kind of like, oh, what’s next, I need to figure out how to make a living and what my next steps are in my life. So it was a bit of a wrench to get thrown at me this week.

What about you, Chris? How are you doing with your pile of closet filth? I couldn’t remember the scale, so I just kind of made it up myself.

Christopher Mitchell 6:37
It’s a nice sort of way to get around that. I appreciate that.

So how am I doing? You know, I think I’m doing fine. I’m kind of in one of those phases where I have a million different things to do. And I kinda, I don’t feel like I can accomplish enough in any one day. But actually, instead of trying to speed things up and do a million things poorly, I’m just trying to take the time to focus on each task and do it the right way.

Instead of like taking a shorter panicked lunch, that’s like 45 minutes and like, BLAH, you know, I’m trying to actually take a little bit of a longer lunch and see if that serves me better, because I’ll be a little bit calmer and more focused in the afternoon. So I’m just trying out different things…

Allison Green 7:20
So European of you, Chris

Christopher Mitchell 7:21
Isn’t it? Yeah.

Allison Green 7:22
laughs

Christopher Mitchell 7:23
During lunch, like I make lunch and eat lunch, shockingly, very lunchtime activities. But then I’ll always do some stretching and meditation and take a shower after that. And then so it’s like this big thing. And I kind of feel like it’s been helpful, I’d be like, I meditate for 10 minutes instead of five minutes. So actually, the more rushed and panicked, I felt more I’ve tried to actually make sure that process at lunchtime is actually relaxing. And I think it’s actually paying dividends.

So it’s this, I guess I’m playing with the idea right now of like, during times of intense stress, when I should be feeling frantic, like trying my best to do the opposite of what I would do during that phase. So instead of taking a 14 minute lunch, I go back to my desk and my brain is fried by 5pm, I’m trying to put things in place so that I actually have a bit more longevity.

And we are recording this later than usual, we’re recording this at 5pm, which is usually, you know, if I wasn’t taking the time to deal with my day that way, like I would be a mess right now, I wouldn’t be functional to be able to record this.

So I think this is probably speaks again to the way in which like while I’m stuck at home, and definitely in fishbowl life, I’m just trying out different things to see how I react and kind of playing a little bit of… like getting experimental in some way to see how different things are affecting me before pace picks back up. And I, you know, go back into another current, right now I kind of have the opportunity to create my own current. So we managed to both mentioned currents, which is a good start.

Allison Green 8:50
Did I?

Christopher Mitchell 8:51
I think you mentioned the current and if not, I blame the fact that it’s 5pm. So…

Allison Green 8:57
OK, all right, I very well could have, I’m still jet lagged.

Christopher Mitchell 8:59
Okay, so we both have excuses.

Allison Green 9:01
So yeah, we’re recording these episodes this week’s and last week’s about two days apart because I was traveling, so we kind of messed up our schedules. So this is not a prolonged multi week jetlag.

Christopher Mitchell 9:14
That’s right.

Allison Green 9:14
Still same jet lag, just for continuity’s sake.

Christopher Mitchell 9:17
Yeah, exactly.

Allison Green 9:18
Just for people who are like Allison, are you… Are you okay?

Christopher Mitchell 9:22
Yeah, this is an awfully long excuse, Allison?

Allison Green 9:24
Yeah, you can’t keep using that.

Christopher Mitchell 9:27
It’s been a month.

If I have to give a number then, really, probably two or so I don’t even think I gave a number in the last episode, to be honest with you. So but I’m not going to add a number just to shame myself for it. I think I’m really probably about a two.

I feel like I’m able to look objectively at how I’m feeling and work through that, which is always a good sign to me that I’m under a five because it seems like when I get over a five, it’s very much like overwhelm takes me for a ride as opposed to me dealing with overwhelm. So yeah, I’m happy to be on the right side of that border. So that’s kind of where I’m at.

Allison Green 10:00
Nice. All right, where do we dive in to our piles of shame and clutter and closets?

Christopher Mitchell 10:09
Yeah. So I guess the first thing to mention is that there are some episodes where we’ve touched upon this a little bit before, IAA 31 is about clutter, and I think we got into this, we had a little bit of a tangent on this. And I think we literally said we ought to do an episode on closets at some point.

Allison Green 10:24
We did, yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 10:25
And here we are, on IAA 45, 14 episodes later, the dream comes to fruition. Probably also talk a little bit about some of the things we’re talking about in IAA 17, on Procrastination, but I think kind of as per usual, we’ll probably take us in some directions we are yet unaware of so I guess first of all, is there a place that you wanted to start with this?

Because I think there are probably a few more things. I mean, you I know you have some issues around like the whole demon thing in the closet a few other things going on with the closet thing that probably makes this episode a little bit more Allison-applicable. But I think, you know, I’ll definitely be heavily involved with it too. But is there a place that you want us to start the discussion?

Allison Green 11:05
Okay, let’s just get the demon thing out of the way.

Christopher Mitchell 11:07
Okay, that’s a good idea.

Allison Green 11:08
So I low-key believe in demons and ghosts. It’s not a big thing. But it’s a, you know, it’s a thing.

Christopher Mitchell 11:15
Occuring.

Allison Green 11:17
I think poltergeists can be real. And I’ve watched a lot of horror movies in my day. And normally I get like a real kick out of them, and like they’re fun. But for some reason, that was like great timing, because like something just like, made a noise over there. And my dog looked..

Christopher Mitchell 11:35
I’m gonna go with dog, not poltergeist.

Allison Green 11:39
But just as I was talking about poltergeists, there was like a sound and I’m like “oh!”, anyway, there’s a couple things in horror movies that have always been sort of like my trigger of Oh, this is fun to like, Oh, this is actually scary. And those are mirrors and closets.

So like, whenever there’s a scene with a mirror, I’m like, I can’t, I can’t watch this. I know the demon’s gonna be in the mirror. But I don’t want to see the demon in the mirror. And before we fixed up our bathroom, I used to have to go way into the bathroom, past the mirror to turn on the light. And it was always so scary. Like I would close my eyes and then like, try to reach for it and touch it and then then I could open my eyes.

So yeah, I have a thing about mirrors in the dark. And I also don’t like closets in the dark if they’re partially open. It’s an issue for me. They… the doors have to be closed, because I’m just afraid they’re gonna like creak open. Or like…

Christopher Mitchell 12:34
You’re inviting something?

Allison Green 12:36
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So like closet doors don’t scare me as long as they’re closed at night. But if they’re open, and that goes for all kinds of closets as well, like we had like a wardrobe from IKEA that was not like its own room. You know, it was just like a wardrobe. But the doors had to be slid closed. It was a thing. So there’s my slight phobia about closets, which is definitely sparked by watching a few too many more horror movies than is good for a child at a certain developmental level. Because this is something I really did as a child, because I was super cool.

Christopher Mitchell 13:12
Yeah, naturally, that’s that’s what I was gonna say. I mean, firstly, I think that the opening quote, there is what steals my heart which is “I low-key believe in demons.” And quite honestly, I’m not here to shame you for that. Because I’m still figuring out what I believe in, because I think the moment we get into like certainty, like I told you before, I don’t speak in definites and certainty because I’ve humbled myself enough times to understand that I’m still figuring everything out. And I’m not going to hop on a recorded podcast and publicly say, this is the way things are, this is the way things aren’t.

I think I’m willing to listen to anything. And I also understand that everyone has their own superstitions and things going on. I can understand why one thing like that, I mean, of all the things that might freak you out, I don’t think that’s totally unreasonable.

Allison Green 13:56
Yeah, I should also know I’m not actually religious, per se, like I’m agnostic. I’m agnostic, veering a little more towards the side of atheism. It’s more about believing in spiritual energy that doesn’t leave the planet then like, this is a thing sent from Hell.

Christopher Mitchell 14:15
Gotcha.

Allison Green 14:15
I don’t really believe in the heaven/hell binary. It’s more like energy that gets trapped in the earth plane that then lives in my closet laughs.

Christopher Mitchell 14:25
Okay.

Allison Green 14:28
I felt that was important to note. I’m anxious about energy trapped on this earth.

Christopher Mitchell 14:33
I’m anxious about heaven/hell binary.

Allison Green 14:35
laughs

Christopher Mitchell 14:35
I’m anxious about a lot of different things. So I’m going to go ahead and mention that I’m not quite anxious about any of those issues, like my anxiety around closets tend to be more practical…

Allison Green 14:49
laughs How dare you, Chris, jeez.

Christopher Mitchell 14:53
Hey, you interpret that as you wish.

Allison Green 14:55
Avoiding demons is an everyday thing. It’s very practical.

Christopher Mitchell 14:59
Fair enough. That is a practical objective. But I guess I will say that for me, really the closet is that place that whenever I’ve had a closet, which I guess would be most of my existence, I’ve always kind of just put things in there that I didn’t want out.

So I got this like sort of ADHD urge that I’m like, Well, whatever I do with this, this can’t be out. This needs to be put away somewhere. And so it’s this quick moment that I think growing up, I probably just, it was like literally, like, almost like blacking out, I just like put away and that’s why I forgot where everything went. I’m a little bit more conscious now of putting things away.

Although, certainly Bri would make the assertion that there are times when I can’t find things, and I think that’s part of it is, I just put something away, because I just don’t want to contend with it anymore.

The other issue that I have kind of around anxiety, as far as it relates to the closet is really related to the items in it, where I have something that sometimes I get, I feel this paralysis towards. There’s an item in the closet that I don’t want to throw out, but I can’t think of any really good reason to keep so like I guess the best I can do. It’s kind of like an email that you said snooze to every six months, you’re just like, well, I’m never like, I don’t know what I’m doing with this email. But like, I guess I wanted to keep coming back to me.

And I think that’s, you know, sometimes it’s a memory or whatever. But I do worry, like, you know, I kind of feel like people get storage, like storage, big big time storage, so that they can take the things from the closet.

Allison Green 16:24
The units? Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 16:24
… That they don’t want to think about anymore and put it over there. So it’s just like, well, I don’t want to run into this for a while. So I’m just like, I want to get the further closet. And I think that’s something we talked about

Allison Green 16:34
Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 16:34
in the episode before, but I don’t really know how to contend with that. Because I have no idea quite frankly, this is related to ADHD, anxiety, or whatever. But I find like I have a pretty intense nostalgia for some things, like a deep attachment to some items that I just, I don’t want to get rid of, but I also don’t know what to do with.

And so in some ways that my closet for sure serves primarily as a place for clothes, Bri and I share one big closet in our apartment, and it is functional but busy.

Allison Green 17:05
laughs

Christopher Mitchell 17:05
But we have a whole bunch… like I have shoes underneath, I have all kinds of stuff up below and under like it’s quite packed in there. But there are some things where I’m just like, I’ve reached this stalemate, where I’m like, I want to respect how much I appreciate this one item but I don’t know what to do with it because I’m like… you know what I mean? That’s part of my anxiety around the closet is like…

Allison Green 17:25
Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 17:25
I don’t want to have to make decisions based on these items. And so you hit the procrastination button and put it into the closet. And ultimately, there’s a certain element of the closet where if you’re opening up the closet, you may have to unpress the procrastination button and that causes a little bit of anxiety, if that makes sense.

Allison Green 17:44
Yeah, it’s like a purgatory that you visit every day to continue the heaven/hell binary.

Christopher Mitchell 17:51
So you believe in purgatory? No I’m just kidding.

Allison Green 17:55
laughs Yeah, a little bit, but anyway. No, I agree. I think closets can definitely be this place where we put things… it’s like a mental trashcan, right?

Christopher Mitchell 18:08
laughs

Allison Green 18:08
We don’t really want to deal with it. So we just like we just put it in there. And then it’s like, out of sight out of mind. It’s something I’ll deal with later. I don’t really know what to do with this.

Christopher Mitchell 18:20
Famous last words.

Allison Green 18:22
Yeah, usually there’s a reason for that there’s something behind the anxiety, right? It’s not just like, Oh, I don’t know what to do with this. It’s like, I don’t know what to do with this because I haven’t decided whether or not I’m going to be a fantastic painter or something like that. Or like, I don’t know what to do with this because I haven’t decided whether or not I’m going to try to lose 10 pounds and get back in better shape. You know what I mean?

Christopher Mitchell 18:48
Right.

Allison Green 18:48
There’s usually a decision that you’re putting off with these purgatory items, and it becomes easier to just delay, delay, delay. And for me, the closet is like a particularly fraught place, demons aside.

Christopher Mitchell 19:05
laughs

Allison Green 19:06
My own inner demons, as someone who has recovered from an eating disorder, I definitely have a bit of a… difficult relationship with my clothing. I should note that I’ve done a lot of work on all of that stuff. And I think I’ve recovered pretty much as well as a person can recover from something like that, but bodies fluctuate. And I’m lucky that I don’t have to put so much emphasis on the way that I eat and exercise in order to sort of maintain a… one size, per se, but there are times over, you know, over the years for like I’ve been more active or less active, things fit better or… less better…. Worse would be the word I’m looking for.

Christopher Mitchell 19:59
laughs

Allison Green 19:59
Yay, English. Yay, English degree, thank you there. Quarter of a million dollars well spent. Thank you NYU for not teaching me worse.

Christopher Mitchell 20:12
Talk about cleaning out your closets. Whoa.

Allison Green 20:14
Yeah. So for me, the clothing thing can be an issue because I’ll have a day where maybe I tried on something and it fit tighter than I was comfortable with. And I should also note that I, like many people with anxiety, have sensory issues where I’m extra sensitive, like my parents always had to cut tags out of things, and if I would have a tag on something, I’d just be like, ugh! I don’t know if that’s anxiety, ADHD, or both.

Christopher Mitchell 20:48
I need to chime in just because for sure, this is something I grew up with, for example, in the morning, my mom would have to bring out five different pairs of socks, because I had a thing about the way socks felt. And we would often, you know, I’d often be late for school simply because I couldn’t find the right pair of socks.

And I think that my mom, probably based on the sheer rambunctious nature of my person, at that time, was starting to talk to other parents who had kids with ADHD or learning, you know, more about kids with ADHD and some of the commonalities there.

And I think I remember her telling me later in life, you know that that was something that was really common to some the other parents she talked to, we’re always talking about their sons or daughters with ADHD, they’re very conscious of how things felt. And I don’t know how that relates to anxiety, per se, but my understanding is, it’s something very common with ADHD. So yeah.

Allison Green 21:47
Yeah, yeah, for me, I have that very much. So there’s certain fabrics that I can’t wear – anything with wool, it makes me want to rip off my skin and donate it and just be like, I don’t need this anymore, you can have this skin, it’s broken.

Christopher Mitchell 22:03
laughs

Allison Green 22:03
But that means that when my weight fluctuates, even just a tiny bit, anything that was like borderline on the edge, can suddenly become really physically uncomfortable to me in a way that like, someone who doesn’t have such a sensitiveness to sensations might be more like, Oh, this is a little tight, but whatever it looks good, I’ll wear it, I like this, I will just be like, this is a non-item now, you know, like, this is not something… this is not a safe item, this is something that’s too tight for me, this is something I can’t wear anymore.

And so it kind of gets like shunted to a certain part of my closet. But in reality, my weight does like fluctuate within a certain thing, based on you know, like, if I’m drinking alcohol or not, if I’m getting a little more exercise, eating more sugar or not, and just general, I think women’s weight fluctuates quite a bit, especially like around hormonal cycles, and whatever, there’s a lot of things.

And so something that I may have assumed was just completely out of reach for me, and like, I should just never touch it again. I’ll try it on once when I’m feeling particularly brave, and like, Oh, this actually fits fine, and I can wear this again, and I actually had this experience when I was recently packing up my closet to leave Bulgaria, and it was like I finally had to deal with all of the items that I assumed I was too fat to fit into. And I was putting them on and like realizing that a lot of them were like, they were fine. They were okay.

Christopher Mitchell 23:33
Hmm

Allison Green 23:34
And so I had just been procrastinating on this for like a really long time because I was so afraid that if I tried them on and they didn’t fit, I was gonna feel bad about myself. So I kept just wearing the same 15 things that I knew fit, that were loose and comfy. And because you know, it wasn’t really seeing people or going outside besides to walk the dog. So like, all fashion went out the window for me. And so I would just kind of reach for the same couple things.

And then when it came time to be like, Okay, do I want to lug these across the ocean with me or not? There were things where I was just, I assumed they wouldn’t work. But they were actually fine. And it was just my anxiety. It was keeping me away from trying them on again, because I just didn’t want to deal with the expected emotional fallout of them not fitting, but then they ended up being fine. So I don’t know, just a little aside.

Christopher Mitchell 24:05
Yeah.

Allison Green 24:08
I don’t know how relevant that will be for a lot of people. But I think women have a little more baggage with their closet, yeah, simply because we have more socialized baggage with our bodies. And also just women’s fashion is more… you know, it changes more. There’s more expectation on women to keep up with fashion, and to kind of be trendy and you know, things are in and out and whatnot.

And so I think women experience like also another side of that would be sort of like spending more money on your clothing in general, I think and feeling maybe shame about things that are no longer in style or like feeling wasteful about things that you’ve bought, because you’re kind of socialized to buy into specific trends. And for me, that’s something that I also struggle with is feeling like frivolous, but also sort of like expected to kind of keep up the shopping habit. And that’s another area where like, my closet can make me feel like embarrassed about my relationship with money and spending.

Christopher Mitchell 25:35
That makes sense to me, I would agree with you 100%. You know, for example, there are very clear, linear paths for me to dress up, you know, what I mean? It’s just like, I guess I’ll wear that, you know, slightly tighter pair of khakis and a dress shirt. And if I want to really bring that up a level, I will, you know, put on a nice pair of shoes and a jacket, that’s just like, suddenly a certain amount of ways that I can, it’s more objective, right.

And I think Bri faces that too. There’s just so many different options in so many, like, she’s forced to question yourself more like, is this appropriate for this occasion? Is this nice enough? Is this not nice enough? So my closet for me, it’s not really the clothes themselves that make me like, Well, you know, and sometimes I feel like I have a lot of clothes, and I’ll just, you know, donate them and things like that. But it’s not overly complicated.

I mean, I think also it helps that I spent a significantly lower amount of money on the items themselves, so I don’t think I guess perhaps I don’t care as much if like something I don’t know, not necessarily doesn’t fit. But like, if I have to get rid of it, it’s not as soul crushing for me. I didn’t put as many expectations on that item in the first place. And I guess I just think like, in general, just as a man like they’re just, I don’t need the repertoire of clothing, you know what I mean, for the most part, I can just put on this, that or the other, it kind of works. Or maybe I just don’t give a shit. I can’t really tell to be honest with you.

But I think I’ve always strived for just enough, you know, I think to look good. I think this is a totally random aside, but I think living in Europe certainly helped. When you’re in North America, you just end up going like a size down. Because if you wore that Europe, you’d be like wearing the baggy clothes ever. But then the alternate is true. And I came back from Turkey. I remember I went out for dinner with a good friend of mine. And she’s like, are you really wearing pants that tight now? Is that a thing after Turkey? I was like, I guess. Yes, I guess it is. I mean, we had a few drinks, but like I was laughing at that point. Anyway, I think you know, it wouldn’t be an I’m Anxious About an episode without a metaphor, right? So like, I’m not gonna let that happen. I can’t go through the full episode without a metaphor. So…

Allison Green 27:42
No, you are physically incapable of it, as a writer and as a human being.

Christopher Mitchell 27:47
I think all things. Physically, mentally, in purgatory, hell, heaven, wherever we are, whatever we’re doing, incapable. Near demons, under demons, wherever I think it’s…

Allison Green 27:57
Not under demons. No, no! Sounds scary.

Christopher Mitchell 27:59
No. Okay, nevermind. Sorry. Okay, well, I take that back. 100%, especially if there’s anything in this room listening carefully. Anywho. I think about the closet metaphor I’m thinking of really is just, sometimes we have guests over to our place. Well, we used to at least, but sometimes you have guests over to your place, then you’re like, Okay, well, there’s shit everywhere. I’m gonna put everything away in this closet. And people come into your place, and they’re like, have a great night. And then they have no idea like bursting at the seams with all this crap, you know? And you’re like, Oh, yes, it’s a good thing I always live in this very clean and tidy place.

And I kind of was laughing, thinking about that in the same way of having anxiety in general, you know, you’re out in public, you’re out doing your thing. You I don’t know, maybe you go to the corner store to buy something and you kind of feel like it’s the same thing. You know, on the surface, everything looks alright, but you’re like, this person has no idea the amount of baggage I have going on with the anxiety and all the stuff… I kind of was laughing. But that to me, that’s the same thing as that closet, you know, where it’s just like that closet version, at the seams, where you’re like “stay closed!” And quite frankly, I think…

Allison Green 29:04
Please don’t open this door thinking it’s a bathroom!

Christopher Mitchell 29:07
Yeah, but you know, like, I think particularly throughout like recording this podcast, I’ve become a lot more comfortable with all the strange idiosyncrasies that make myself who I am. And I think I’ve said this before on the podcast, but the way I always think about it is that I I wouldn’t wish my brain on anybody, but I also probably wouldn’t trade it for the world.

Allison Green 29:29
Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 29:29
I’ve gotten used to it. And sometimes it’s a struggle, but a lot of the times, it’s just how I know the world, right? It’s like it’s my compass, which sometimes feels broken, but often gets me where I need to go. And just kind of laughing at that to the notion that like, sometimes we cross somebody on the street and we have no idea how packed that mental closet is. We just get to see the clean living room, right, for the most part, and it’s just kind of funny. It was really the only reasonable way I can think of bringing a metaphor to this episode. So I’m going to kindly request that you embrace it.

Allison Green 30:05
I do embrace it, I think everyone has had that moment where it’s just like you shove everything into a place, whether it’s because people are coming over, or it’s just because you’ve reached a certain level of stress where your clutter is stressing you out but you’re also too stressed to actually declutter in any meaningful way with making use or organizing the objects, and you just kind of shove it all in. So I think that it’s a very relatable metaphor.

Something that I want to talk about, I think, is the idea… and we’ve been meaning to tackle I’m Anxious About Organization at some point, so we’ll give you a little preview, I suppose, of tackling that.

Christopher Mitchell 30:55
Yeah

Allison Green 30:55
I think for me, the closet is a location where all of my perfectionist ideas of being an organized individual go to die.

Christopher Mitchell 31:09
laughs

Allison Green 31:09
And it’s, like, I have sort of… I think this is another thing that’s very common with women is we have these sort of like vision boards on you know, Pinterest or whatnot, of these like perfectly organized, beautiful, serene closets where you have this like capsule collection of, you know, high quality but you know, exquisitely curated clothing, which you just…

Christopher Mitchell 31:37
Color coded.

Allison Green 31:39
Yeah, which you just select, you know, the shade of taupe that you’re going to wear that day and match it with this, and then maybe you put on a scarf to liven it up. And there’s sort of this weird cult of minimalism that women have been asked to embrace, while also still like buying a lot of shit, which is just like, okay, that doesn’t make sense.

I was listening to a podcast on Unfuck Your Brain about this called Maximalism, and it was sort of like interrogating the idea of minimalism. And so, some of the ideas, I’m probably just rehashing her words, but I think we, you know, we’ve been told that we should be minimalistic and purposeful in our selections of everything that goes into our closet. And in a way it’s very representative of all the pressures that are placed on women to be budget conscious, you know, the sort of the, the keepers of the wallet and to sort of be, you know, smart with your purchases and not be excessive, and, you know, to choose clothing that sensible, that isn’t, you know, too rambunctious or too revealing or too this or too that.

And you shouldn’t have too many clothes because that’s hedonistic, you know. So you should really just have this like this perfect little minimalist wardrobe. And then you’re a pure being, and there’s like a morality attached to this minimalism that we’ve been asked to buy into. And so I think I kind of rebel against that notion, but also still buy into it.

And it’s like, well, no, I’m not someone who is going to wear slacks and like five different shades of taupe, I want this dress, and I want this thing and I want this, but then I don’t want to organize it and have it be accessible because at the same time, my brain is still feeling like I don’t really deserve all these things. So it’s like, they don’t even deserve a nice place. They just all live in a heap on the floor sometimes, you know, so I don’t know, there’s sort of a weird thing about deserving and showcasing and where things should be and how much space you give them in your closet and I usually just end up just putting a bunch of stuff on the floor, because I’m just like, too, there’s too much like wrapped up in it. This is actually becoming a very heavy episode.

It’s a good thing we went light.

Yeah, we covered demons, eating disorders, patriarchy. It’s been a wild ride.

But it’s definitely something that’s a challenge for me is sort of knowing where’s the balance of having a closet that doesn’t stress me out, but isn’t restrictive or like overly minimalistic in a way of denying myself the things that I like and look pretty. I’m a kind of like a little bird who likes to collect like pretty objects and stuff that makes me really happy. But like, at the same time, I get stressed out by clutter and so it’s kind of like navigating this thing where I just end up getting paralyzed into inaction. And then it all just ends up in a floor and it’s not pretty.

Christopher Mitchell 34:57
Yeah, I think that’s a common thread with anxiety, right, it’s like you think for a long time, creating arguments for both sides of whatever you’re contending with. And if it doesn’t reach ahead, you ultimately end up in this state of you’re halted, right? And then you’re like, whatever would have been beneficial, the pros of both sides are just outweighed by the cons of inaction. And you’re just like, Okay, well, I guess this will all just sit here. And I guess, probably no easier understand metaphor than the pile of clothes on the floor, right? You’re just like, I can’t do this.

And yeah, I tend to see I mean, there’s, there’s certain pressures, we face as just human beings that are ascribed to us whether we like it or not. I mean, this is the third episode that we’ve recorded on video. And there’s a reason that we have one different things three times in a row, right? Because it’s like, you don’t want to be the person who’s wearing the same thing on three separate occasions.

Allison Green 35:52
Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 35:32
And I think that’s just something to contend with. So I think really it’s about finding that good balance for you. I mean, I know I do get excited about collecting things, too. Like if I see like, I bought like a rain jacket in like November that I’m excited to wear and I don’t know, I think there’s there’s a real value in collecting items that you care about that make you feel a certain way. As long as you know, the items you buy aren’t like paper towels, they’re gonna be discarded, you know, like, they’re more like a… something you can reuse, you know, and something that will continue to bring you joy, I think, and I have no problem with that. There’s a strange like fetishization, which is probably a word I’d prefer to never say again, if at all possible.

But there is this sort of the way that we like, celebrate both sides of that coin, right. It’s just like, collect everything because things mean the world then it’s just like the other side of it’s like, all you need is you, you know, and there’s like all these travelers who are like, I’ve worn the same pair of socks for five years, and you’re like, Alright, well, maybe calm down with that a little bit. There isn’t a lot of in between, right. And there isn’t a lot of in between where someone’s like, I’ve actually found the ideal amount of things that I want, and both sides can quiet down a little bit.

But you’re right, that there’s something about the closet, in the sense that is a huge representation of your identity, that I think that that’s why there’s some anxiety around it, right? When I open up my closet and look at the clothes in that closet, I have a whole bunch of memories of wearing those clothes and things like that. But ultimately, these are the statements that I’ve chose to make to communicate my inner character to the outside world. You know, like that. I’m, I like to wear crazy stuff. Sometimes I like to be quirky. I like to be… you know, sometimes I like to wear colorful stuff, even though again, you can see that’s fine, but I’m wearing an awfully drab gray right now. But stylish, stylish gray. We’re in the same color unplanned. Anyways, we’ll get these on to YouTube at some point, just depends how much we procrastinate. But anyways, that’s for another day.

Anytime we’re contending with something it might seem totally benign. Like, it might seem like we’re just talking about a space. But anytime that space is filled with items which are intimately associated with your identity and who you are, it’s going to be complicated. Especially when all of those items if it was just that would be fine.

But let’s be honest, it’s not just that, it’s the shit you put above it, below it, around it. So you can’t quite get to it. There’s bags, there’s like, there’s everything in there, it’s a real smorgasbord. And so you have all those things to kind of contend with. And I’m not necessarily sure I thought about that until we recorded this episode.

I mean, I know there was one shirt that I wore all the time when I was went on my first big backpacking trip when I was a young lad and it just got to the point of like, this point in time, I was using like skin-searing acne creams to contend with my pimples and I think eventually that got on to this shirt, which was a polite teal, and it was just game over. Like that was just splotches everywhere. And like I remember being legitimately crestfallen by that to the point where I was still dating Bri at that time because we’ve been together apparently, since birth. And I remember she was like, why don’t you make it into like, a pillowcase or a pillow? And I was just like, no, it’s not a shirt anymore. Like, you know, I want to be able to wear it. Like it was like, you know, I was a kind of a big deal. And I think there is an element of that which we have to think about as it relates to the closet. It’s not just the space that we’re looking at. It’s what we typically fill the space with, right?

Allison Green 39:39
Absolutely. Yeah, I too, have felt the sting of some, you know, clothing item that you love, just no longer working and it can be a devastating feeling. I remember once I was in Oaxaca, and I spilled mole or like some sort of intensely chile-hued thing on, I believe was like a brand new dress that I had just bought and fallen in love with. And I was like, even though we were like 20 minutes from where we were staying, I was like, we need to go back, I need to hand wash this NOW, it was non negotiable because I think we do get really attached to our clothing because in a way, it’s our billboard to the world about who we are.

It’s our armor, like against literally being naked, but it’s also like our armor against people kind of judging us or making assumptions about us. And it’s what we put quite literally as a barrier between us and other people to make a statement about the kind of people that we are. And then there’s also you know, the transactional aspects of it, that having money tied to it and whatnot, and how much use you’ve gotten out of it.

And there’s some sort of morality wrapped up in that if you’re someone who is like very frugal, I hate the idea like that I’ve wasted something on the first use or whatnot, that I didn’t use something to its maximum potential.

Another thing that I hate when going through my closet is realizing things I’ve never worn or only worn once. I think that’s a lot more common with women because you know, we tend to maybe try to fit into a trend that actually was not designed for a body with hips and features, but was like designed for you know, some beautifully cheekboned Cyborg from a country whose name you’ve never heard of walking down a runway, but you feel compelled to buy it anyway. And then so it just kind of hangs in your shelf. It’s like why aren’t I a beautiful cheekboned Cyborg? I wish I was. Why do I have shoulders? Who needs shoulders? This dress would look great if I didn’t have shoulders! I have a couple of pieces of clothing in my closet like that, that were like, if only I was this person with no human features.

Christopher Mitchell 41:58
Alas, oh, to be human. What an existence we have, us normal humans, the non Cyborg population, it is a tough ride for us.

Allison Green 42:08
Very tough. Very tough. All ri ght. I don’t know if I have any more dirty laundry to air on this.

Christopher Mitchell 42:16
No, I was just about to say I think it’s probably time we closed this closet. I was trying to think about prior to the episode if there was any real tips that I had related to closets. And I think there are some like, strangely obvious tips where it’s like, you know, take everything out, put everything back in. And, and I don’t know, if the tip that I would offer would be something absurdly practical, like how to clean out your closet or more just, you know, hoping that some of what we talked about offers some insight into why we’re anxious about closets in the first place.

I kind of find that I let things build up to a certain height, where I know that it’s something I need to deal with. And I know personally that, and I’ve talked about this before how like, if it’s on a weekday, I’m going to feel a lot of pressure about getting it done and it’s going to feel like an added stress. But if I plan it for like a Saturday morning, and I’m listening to music, or I’m listening to podcasts, catching up on podcasts or whatever, then I can do those tasks with a lot more ease.

So I mean, what would work for me I know already is if I’m going to do a big clean of my closet or something like that, I would plan it for like a Saturday morning, wait, choose a podcast that I really want to listen to, and then I would also tether it to a goal that was worthy like taking five items of clothing to donate to shelter or something like that, so that there’s like, it’s not just that like… there’s like a selfish and selfless narrative there to add to that motivation.

But you know, that’s, that’s really all I can think about as far as tips are concerned. I, quite frankly, don’t have a big enough closet to even know what I would do with a walk in closet, you know, it’s just kind of a bit of a mess. And we do the best that we can with, you know where we’re at. And at the same time, I do try and have some order there. Because I know I do have a propensity to take something off a hanger and then put it back into a basket. And then I expect that like almost like they’ll they’ll be clothing evaporation or like it will rise on to the hanger again.

Allison Green 44:13
laughs Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 44:16
I need to be like a little bit weary of that. And then of course, there’s what we’ve talked about before in the Clutter episode where sometimes those like physical cues of seeing things on the ground and so forth can be really like an instigator for other anxiety. So I try to avoid that.

But in some ways this episode was a bit exploratory for me, I’m still trying to figure out what that looks like for me and working through I guess my own closet demons. But it’s funny though, because it seems like particularly now after we’ve done like 45 episodes or so there really isn’t a topic that doesn’t have some sort of underlying deeper narrative as it relates to anxiety, which I think is probably just a sign that there’s a ubiquitous nature to anxiety where it kind of touches us in all regards, that there really isn’t some zone where it’s like, we’re going to come across a topic and then just go like, you know what, like, nothing. You know, there’s nothing there for me. Not anxious at all. So anyways, it’s interesting. I don’t know, if you maybe perhaps you have some more concrete tips in that regard, but I don’t,

Allison Green 45:15
Yeah, mine aren’t so concrete, because I don’t want to be prescriptive.

Christopher Mitchell 45:18
Fair enough. Yeah, I agree.

Allison Green 45:18
You know what I mean? Like, everyone has a different relationship to their objects. And so it’s not really my place to be like, this is how you should structure your objects. Because at the end of the day, that’s what a closet is, it’s a room or a wardrobe to place objects in, and so I think, trying to make it an objective place, rather than a subjective place, and just realize it isn’t, you know, you’re necessarily the place where you go for, like, your shame, Greatest Hits, or, you know, like… it’s… Sorry, my dog is having a very loud puppy dream behind me. It’s very cute. But I don’t know if that microphone picked that up.

No, I heard one one small ruff, but..

It was very cute.

It doesn’t have to be anything other than a room where you put your things. And so I would just suggest that you figure out what gives you the most pleasure and avoids the most pain and just kind of stick with that. And whether that’s having a tightly packed closet full of like all your most treasured and delightful things, then by all means, do that. And if it means you know, having your carefully curated, minimalistic wardrobe, and that truly like makes you happy, and just like streamlines like stress in your life of like having to pick out a particular outfit. That’s awesome.

I can’t tell you how to relate to your clothes and objects and what you put on your body that’s like… that’s your own closet to fill. I would just say though, one thing I have found helpful is just incorporating like a five minute tidy into my day. And so rather than trying to constantly keep up with putting things away, as soon as I take them off the hanger or whatnot, I will just kind of like tack on five minutes to different tasks.

I’m like, Okay, I’m going to make lunch. But before I make lunch, I’m going to spend five minutes tidying up this area. And it usually involves putting things into a closet at some point. So it is kind of related.

But I find that just rather than trying to deal with your closet, and like one big emotional day, just chipping away at it bit by bit is the strategy I choose. Yeah, mostly to minimize my demon exposure.

Christopher Mitchell 47:55
I like it.

Allison Green 47:56
It’s actually funny because after we finished recording this, I think I actually am going to go fill up my closet because I have a completely empty closet for the first time ever. My mom took a bunch of stuff out of it. And now it’s like completely empty and I have all these luggages… that plural did not compute for me for some reason. So I have all these pieces of luggage. I think that’s why because you’d normally say pieces of luggage.

Christopher Mitchell 48:21
Indeed, indeed.

Allison Green 48:22
I have all these pieces of luggage I need to unpack and hang up and stuff. And I’ve been avoiding it. But I think I should probably just take this as my sign from the universe, aka myself to just frickin’ do it.

Christopher Mitchell 48:36
That sounds like a very appropriate next step and task after this episode, you’ll probably get a lot of gratification from it actually, because of all that we’ve assigned to that action.

Allison Green 48:48
Mmhmm.

Christopher Mitchell 48:48
But of course, you can’t pat yourself on the back for something you haven’t done yet.

Allison Green 48:53
True.

Christopher Mitchell 48:54
But you can’t pat yourself on the back for something you haven’t done yet. I guess you could really if you, if you quite frankly, I mean we make and change the rules at will.

But is there something that you’re patting yourself on the back for? Even I guess we recorded two days ago so something in the last two days you’re patting yourself on the back for again?

For any new listeners here, we always finish our episode by patting doing a little pat on the back for something that we did since our last recording. And we also encourage you guys to pause or at least think about something you’d like to pat yourself on the back for so we can all gleefully head off in the sunset arm and arm and smiles on our faces so yeah, that was really just for me to buy you time, Allison.

Allison Green 49:33
No actually, I had my thing but I do have one thing I want to say and it’s not me procrastinating actually, but I think the reason why we do this is because as anxiety havers we tend to self-flagellate a lot and just like constantly, you know, review all of our failings and so, this started as a place to, for us to brag about our projects at the beginning. Like be like, where can you find me like, here’s something I’m doing on my website, it definitely changed over the course of recording to be like, looking at the past week and trying to switch that negativity bias towards a positivity bias and try to find some of the positivity that we’ve been able to cultivate over the past week and not just like, go down another rabbit hole of our shittiness. Yeah, which is what the anxiety brain loves to do.

So anyway, on that note, I have been on a total roll with my poetry. And I wrote two more poems in the last two days. And I sent one over to my friend who I workshop things with. And she was like, This is the greatest thing you’ve ever written, like, you should aim high with this one. So I submitted to three more literary magazines, not just that poem, as well as like a couple others that I liked, you can usually submit between, like four and six poems simultaneously.

So I submitted to a lot of things that like feel totally out of my league, and likely are, but the point isn’t even necessarily to achieve publication, that would be cool. The point is getting out of the shame closet of believing my poetry doesn’t deserve to be read by people. So I’m just happy that I’m continuing with this, because poetry is something that I’ve always loved. But I’ve found it hard to be persistent and consistent with is something that can really easily feel frivolous, or like a waste of time, or embarrassing in some way, because it’s such a private kind of art form.

Christopher Mitchell 51:42
Yeah.

Allison Green 51:42
And so it’s something I’ve never really shared with the world. So this has been kind of like a fun little foray, into kind of a new stage of my life being like, yeah, you know, what I’m proud of what I’m doing. And I think, honestly, doing this podcast and being able to be vulnerable on here has definitely given me a lot of freedom to feel like I can be vulnerable in other places as well, I think it’s kind of lifted the veil of me needing to present a certain persona.

And so I can be like, yeah, I write poems, and my poems are like, kind of fucking weird. And I use some weird ass images. And that’s fine. And you might be slightly confused or disturbed or perturbed, or whatever. But this is like what I wrote, this is what came out of my brain. And I’m proud of it. This is it. And so I’ve just been really happy with that. And I’m sure, inspiration comes in fits and spurts. And so I know that I can’t really ride this wave forever. But I’m just happy that I am in a period of being prolific and proactive as well. So yeah, that’s my thing.

Christopher Mitchell 52:51
I think that’s wonderful. Yeah, I’m so happy to hear that, I will happily read some of that down the line.

Allison Green 52:56
Yeah!

Christopher Mitchell 52:56
Good luck with that. But I honestly, I think something I’m borderline obsessed with right is like this idea of focusing on process and not outcome. And I just love the idea that you’re focused on writing poetry and submitting it, but not necessarily concerned about what you hear back to validate the process. So that’s wonderful. I really like that.

I guess as far as what I’m patting myself on the back for again, I think, probably a couple episodes in a row, I kind of feel like your back patting thing, I just kind of just want to sit here and celebrate you for a second. But I don’t have anything specific really, other than just, I think I’ve taken on a lot of steps, again, partially to this podcast of being comfortable with the idea that I’m far from perfect. And that’s okay.

And I think part of that is has lended itself to like I’m trying a bunch of new things right now that I really know, I’m putting myself out there and going to be putting myself out there. And my first tendency is to hear all the people in backrooms that don’t exist, because no one can actually meet up, talking shit about me and how this won’t work and all this, that and the other. And I realized I don’t really give a shit like I used to, I think it’s like harnessing this kind of like fuck-it mentality where I’m not obsessed with the the idea of failure being final anymore.

Really, I think I’ve come to the idea that failure, for one is subjective. But also like, if something doesn’t work, that’s not the end of the road, rather, it’s not the period in the sentence. And I think the reason I mentioned this now is because there’s one thing I’m working on in particular that I’ve made a lot of headway on in the last two days. And it doesn’t matter what it is really for the listeners right now, because it’s something related to the realm of you’ll know if I was talking to you about it, but it’s just something I’m working on.

And I think there’s probably a period of my life where I was kind of like, I don’t really care, like I’m just doing my thing and whatever, but I did still care. And you know, there’s no question I still do care what people think about me because I’m just not at that place yet. I guess I just haven’t, you know, I haven’t meditated in floating tanks quite enough often, Allison, or at all, ever.

Allison Green 54:57
Yeah. I don’t think we’re ever successfully going to be able to not care what people think about us.

Christopher Mitchell 55:02
No.

Allison Green 55:03
I don’t even think that’s a desirable outcome, because then we just become sociopaths.

Christopher Mitchell 55:08
Yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s right. But I guess the main thing is that, I think, without kind of necessarily knowing it, like, I think I’ve just become more comfortable in the last couple of days with this, whatever happens with this thing that I’m working on, I’m not going to drown in the initial reaction or outcome to whatever is going on, I’m just going to be like, this is something we’re working with a few other people and something I’m excited about.

And that’s enough for me, and, and also coming to accept that, like, you know, I’m more than my projects, right. I mean, I think if you look back at like, anybody who’s ever done anything, and this is not like the great people of history, or just literally anybody, you know, there’s trials and tribulations, failures and successes, right? Like, there isn’t anybody who just continues to have it easy, so I don’t really give a shit. I’m just I’m going to go for things and take shots and just see whatever happens.

And it was a longer tangent than I wanted to go on. But I think it’s something I’ve been thinking about for a long time. And I think I’m just sort of crystallizing it now that I don’t know I maybe I shouldn’t be scared of failure, right? Because that’s probably where most of the learning happens.

Anyway, so that’s kind of where I’m getting to, I think it probably there’s some actually overlap with some what you’re talking about your poetry where it’s just kind of like it comes to a certain point where you just are gonna start being a little bit more unapologetic, right and just being like, I really don’t give a shit. I think you talked about it little bit last episode where it’s like, however much I imagine people talking about this, that and the other and, you know, running their mouths with this, that the other whatever, like, most that’s just in my head, and nobody has been more abusive to me than I have.

Allison Green 56:45
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Christopher Mitchell 56:47
So whatever, right? It’s just like, I’m just gonna move forward through it. And that’s that. So I think that was a good amount of back patting. My wrist is starting to hurt. So I’m going to stop on the back here.

Allison Green 56:59
laughs Yeah, don’t give yourself carpal tunnel with this backpatting, Chris.

Christopher Mitchell 57:01
I don’t want that. Yeah, cuz like, that’s the real deal. So I don’t want to do that. But again, I really hope that everyone’s listening that you take a moment to pat yourself on the back for something since you listened to the last episode. And maybe you haven’t listen to an episode in like two months so you have a lot to work with. But hopefully

Allison Green 57:19
Now you have eight things that you must be proud of, go.

Christopher Mitchell 57:22
That’s right. And also I mean, like if you’re feeling hungry for praise, like just listen to eight episodes in a row and just absolutely just check in, listen to the episode, back pat, and just leave the day feeling great. That’s kind of, I guess, is that a marketing ploy in disguise? Listen to our entire catalogue.

Allison Green 57:41
Yeah, give us your soul.

Christopher Mitchell 57:43
Yeah, well.

Allison Green 57:44
I’m really leaning into this demonology stuff today. I’m sorry, maybe it’s anticipating dealing with the closet for more than an hour it’s like well, I’m opening the portal for a longer time than usual.

Christopher Mitchell 57:56
You low key believe in demons so

Allison Green 57:58
Low key

Christopher Mitchell 57:59
In the show notes which we’ll have on our site for this episode, one of the key takeaways is Allison low key believes in demons

Allison Green 58:08
Let us know if you low key believe in demons too. I’m actually curious because I think I’m a weirdo.

Christopher Mitchell 58:14
So you know, I don’t know if you’ve watched the show Schitt’s Creek, but like there’s some one lot like little lines that I think they end up becoming larger and funnier than they ever should have been such as. Again, if you don’t watch the show, you’re gonna be like Chris, please shut up and end the episode, but there’s a part where Moira and David are like cooking together. And she’s reading instructions and she’s like and then you fold in the cheese and David’s like fold in the cheese, what the hell does that mean? Just like you just fold it in, you know like and becomes this big larger than life thing where it ends up being hilarious and now there’s a slogan foldin the cheese has chased around this show in a funny way. And I think you know, I low key believe in demons might be our fold in the cheese. I don’t know. I don’t know.

Allison Green 58:54
Nice.

Christopher Mitchell 58:55
I don’t know.

Allison Green 58:55
I haven’t watched Schitt’s Creek yet because it wasn’t available on European Netflix. But now that I’m back in land of no VPNs I intend to fully give it a whirl. I hear it is your country’s greatest export besides hockey and cheese curds.

Christopher Mitchell 59:14
That’s right. And yeah, in that order, well done, I’m very proud of you. And don’t forget maple syrup too but they’re …

Allison Green 59:21
No, Vermont, sorry.

Christopher Mitchell 59:22
Well, this is a huge argument.

Allison Green 59:25
This is the end of our podcast.

Christopher Mitchell 59:26
This is the end of everything. I am low key going to begin to hate you, no, but I think what I will tell you and this is just for for listeners too, the first six episodes are gonna make you question why is it that Chris and/or other people are in love with this show and then the rest of the six seasons will tell you why.

Allison Green 59:47
Okay. Cool.

Christopher Mitchell 59:47
So get past the first six episodes. Anyways, we have gotten far away from closets. So I think we ought to finish it. I hope everyone enjoyed being on this ride with us that we thought was going be a terrifically short episode, and will end up being our longest episode probably in two months. So there you go.

Allison Green 1:00:07
It’s not so bad. It’s not that off the rails. It was no I’m Anxious About the News with Ryan Patel.

Christopher Mitchell 1:00:14
No, there was no two hour.. Yeah, that episode, I still sometimes will throw on in the background, I think we had a good dialogue for that one.

Allison Green 1:00:24
Yeah but like, how can you be anxious about the news for less than two hours? Even if you aren’t as verbose as we are? It’s literally not possible. It’s the worst thing in the world.

Christopher Mitchell 1:00:33
It’s true. I mean, I think that was applicable. Whether or not one should speak for an hour and 10 minutes about closets is up for debate, but one should speak about two hours about the news, I think that’s fine. Well, I enjoyed this one at least. And I will just offer a big thank you to everyone for tuning in again this week. We’ll be back the next Thursday to continue to fill your ears with all kinds of stuff. So thank you everyone for tuning in.

Allison Green 1:00:58
As long as I don’t get swallowed by a closet demon. I will see you next week. Bye everyone.

Christopher Mitchell 1:01:04
Bye