I’m Anxious About Change: Tips, Resources & Transcript (Episode 45)

I’m Anxious About Change: Tips, Resources & Transcript (Episode 45)

In this episode, Chris and Allison dive a little deeper than usual and tackle a terrifying topic in I’m Anxious About Change.

As Allison navigates her big life change of moving back to the United States after living abroad since 2016, she handles all the necessary questions that entails and that a change this big asks you.

Meanwhile, Chris and Allison discuss the changes of the last year with the coronavirus pandemic and how that’s affected our perception of our ability to handle change.

We break down the difference between active and passive change and discuss why both are difficult for people with anxiety.

I’m Anxious About Change Because…

  • Active change we have a role in leads to decision paralysis, where we have too many decisions to make so we avoid and procrastinate making a decision as long as humanly possible
  • Passive change we cannot impact leads to feelings of hopelessness and powerlessness — massive triggers for those anxious about change.
  • Change makes us question the big life things we take as fact, and forces us to confront them. Questioning our worldview can definitely trigger some anxiety.

3 Tips If You Have Anxiety About Change

  1. Focus on what you do have power over and what you don’t. In a medical situation, for example, you may not be able to help someone’s condition, but you can can change how you show up each day at their side.
  2. Realize that at some point, when you make changes in your life, you are going to have to make a decision, but that decisions aren’t always final, nor is there a certified letter from the universe saying you’ve made the right or wrong one. Often, the only right decision is the one you’ve made.
  3. Change is inevitable, perhaps the only thing in life we can count on. Making peace with change through coping strategies such as breathing exercises and self-care techniques is essential to taming the anxiety about change that is inherent to life.

IAA 45: I’m Anxious About Change

Episode Description:

By now, you’ve probably realized that Chris & Allison can never resist any chance to get a little meta, and this episode is no exception. In this episode, Allison discusses her recent big change of moving back to the United States and the many identity crises that present along with it.

Chris & Allison speak at length about the relationship between anxiety and change, particularly how we tend to ruminate on change for a long time before finally feeling secure to make it, and how we cope when change we weren’t expecting is thrown our way. It’s a little heavier than usual, but Allison’s jet lag means things never veer too serious.

SPEAKERS: Christopher Mitchell and Allison Green

Christopher Mitchell 0:01
Welcome to I’m Anxious About, a podcast where two friends commiserate about our respective anxieties on a new topic each week. I’m Christopher Mitchell.

Allison Green 0:11
And I’m Allison Green. And today, we are anxious about change.

So, long time listeners who are particularly smart and audiophilic? … that sounds perverted, sorry… really particular about audio quality may notice a slight change in my recording, hopefully not too much for the worse because I’ve changed locations. I’m currently recording from my kitchen at home in California.

So apologies if the sound quality is a little echoey on my end, I know our editor is going to do her best and she’s going to do a kick ass job. But there still might be a bit of an echo because I haven’t soundproofed my podcasting situation as best I can yet, since I am jet lagged beyond belief. I feel like a bag of skin. So this might be a bit of a strange episode. So enjoy the ride!

Christopher Mitchell 1:36
Indeed, yeah, I mean, it’s already a strange episode, because we already recorded the first 20 minutes and then it crashed in horrid flames. Yeah, we had one of those wondrous tech difficulties that we pushed through and fired up the engine again, because because we care, because we care. We care about our listeners. So here we are. And I thought I could make that more sentimental, but I think that’s all I’ve got Allison. So…

Allison Green 2:08
I should note that Chris took this particular technical difficulty a little harder than one might expect. He was really agonizing over like, do we do we keep going? Do we just do I’m like, Chris, it’s gone. Let it go. Let it go, Chris. Yeah,

Christopher Mitchell 2:24
Letting go, uh…

Allison Green 2:24
He’s like, “we can fix it.” I’m like, No, Chris, let’s just start over. So yeah, if Chris seems a little off…

Christopher Mitchell 2:31
Letting go…. Yeah, it’s not my forte. It’s not my forte. I’m a little bit aloof right now. I hate like, if anyone listens to the episode, or any episode where I referenced, it’s like my obsession about not wasting time, it’ll all make sense to why I’m in like, not an aggressive tailspin, but like mild, anxious tailspin, and why my number when we check in will be a little higher than it was.

So yes. Speaking of that, should I ask you that? Yeah, that number, not the number. Shall I ask you? The classic sentence. So every few episodes, I just mentioned that we check in at the beginning of episodes, ask each other a scale related to the episode. In this particular episode, our scale is on a scale of one to a pandemic, sweeping the globe and changing everything. You know, where would you be with that sort of just totally outlandish situation which I’ve never experienced?

Allison Green 3:31
I don’t know. It’s all so theoretical, right?

Christopher Mitchell 3:33
Very theoretical.

Allison Green 3:34
I don’t really know what that would look like or feel like or what a whole year of that existence would be like, you know, like, can’t really wrap my head around it.

Christopher Mitchell 3:46
I probably wouldn’t start a podcast about anxiety.

Allison Green 3:49
No, probably not. I’m doing okay. I would actually say that I’m doing great anxiety wise, but I am jet lagged beyond belief. So insanity wise, I’m pushing an 11, Spinal Tap style. The dial is way up. I’ve been up since three in the morning, and it’s currently about three in the afternoon. So that’s a ride. And I am just trying to kind of get my brain back together and figure out what life is, who I am, if this is Earth, is time moving forwards or backwards…. Just basics, the basics right now?

Christopher Mitchell 4:35
All questions we’re gonna answer in this episode.

Allison Green 4:40
But overall, yeah, no, I’m doing good. It was difficult to fly during a pandemic. It was a choice that I didn’t take lightly at all. And it was a big change and change that was kind of a long time coming, one that I was thinking of making, but scared to make.

I was living in Bulgaria for a long time, since 2018. And I just stopped clicking with the country a while ago, and was feeling really unhappy there, feeling really stuck. And because of the pandemic, it was really hard for me to feel like I had a lot of options. And I wanted to move home for a time. But there were so many times where it didn’t feel safe, or it felt too scary.

There were too many other ancillary decisions involved that made it much more difficult to decide to make this change. But I experienced a loss in December of my stepsister, she passed away rather suddenly, like a really aggressive form of cancer, at 36.

And that kind of just made me re-evaluate what I wanted to be doing and made me be like, Well, fuck it, like I might be scared of this change. But it’s a change that I need to do. Because I want to be around my family. I don’t want to always live on the other side of the planet from them. Like that was something I wanted at one point in my life. But I’ve come to realize that it wasn’t necessarily what I always wanted, and that there’s a lot to be said about being home and being around loved ones. And so getting to the point of making this change was hard, too. Like last week, I was pushing an 8 and a 9 a lot of the time every day, but I pushed through the bad days, made some tough choices, some sad moments, but I’m really happy to be here in California at least.

So it’s been a wild ride, quite literally because there was some some crazy airport buffoonery and whatnot. That was a quite entertaining, I may have gotten into one of the most aggressive verbal altercations of my life in security for Istanbul Airport screening when a man tried to cut in front of me in line. And so basically, it’s just been a whirlwind.

Christopher Mitchell 7:07
You messaged me with a lot of caps, lotta caps.

Allison Green 7:11
It was very caps situation. It was cathartic though.

So it was like, I took out all my anger, the whole situation on one individual who actually deserved it. So it was quite nice, actually. Yeah, it’s been a weird week. And I’m sorry for the really long and rambling intro. I will now pass it over to you, Chris. And ask how you’re doing on a scale of one to theoretical global pandemic upending everything we know.

Christopher Mitchell 7:39
Yeah, so hard to imagine how that would play out, so. Just really tough. That would be quite a change. Of that, there’s no question. I’d have to reconceptualize everything I mean, whatever.

Allison Green 7:50
Yeah, maybe reconsider your travel writing career too.

Christopher Mitchell 7:54
Yeah, everything just really everything. Well, firstly, we’ve… as the episodes have progressed, I think we’ve tried to keep our check ins a little bit shorter and tighter and just, you know, towards the episode, but I think in this case, the reason that we’re doing this episode is largely because of everything you’re going through, a lot of change is afoot. A lot of change happened and happening.

So I’m sure everyone who’s a longtime listener will be happy you shared so candidly, and I’m sure I speak for everyone that we wish you well through the change, but I’m happy you’re doing well so far. I know personally, it was a tough, last little stretch there and good for you for being on the other side of this and lots of good things on the horizon, we hope, and not a goal pandemic. Sorry, I think that that joke’s probably run its course already. All right, we get it. We get it guys, there’s a pandemic going on.

Allison Green 8:47
We get it, you’re saying something that’s not that is, great humor, guys.

Christopher Mitchell 8:52
Yeah. Wow. A-plus. All right.

Allison Green 8:54
Wow. Creativity, sarcasm: 101. You passed it with flying colors, we’re so proud of you. claps sarcastically.

Christopher Mitchell 9:02
Yes. Well, I thought it was a pretty great idea. But, you know, I’ve been at the helm of this mic long enough to know when it’s time to move forward and that joke had a shelf life about a minute. Anyways, as far as our scale is concerned, I think I’m doing all right. I was doing certainly better before we had to re-record this, but at the same time, too, it’s not too painful talking to you, Allison, it’s not really painful. So it’s all right.

But it is interesting for me like the idea of like, something that we created not being accessible or not going to work anymore. It does…. I mean, I would say some minor heart palpitations, nothing too crazy.

But you know, at the end of the day, it’s not a huge deal. And here we are, you know, as far as changes for me, they’re not going to really equal your changes in this instance, some bigger changes afoot for you, but I’m just focusing on really trying to understand what changes are good and bad for me and part of that is just taking certain things in and out of my routine.

So you know, take a break from alcohol for a week and just see how does that make me feel, am I less anxious, what’s going on? I gave up caffeine and probably will continue to go no caffeine for a little bit. I just… I’ve spoken about before coffee… It’s just, it’s like a disaster. It’s like I’m dynamite. And coffee is a lighter, and it’s just like, it just doesn’t work for me anymore unfortunately.

Allison Green 10:34
I hope that’s not a toilet metaphor. I hope that’s like a brain metaphor.

Christopher Mitchell 10:38
No, it’s a brain metaphor. You’re just a sick individual, Allison. But well-played, yeah, and tea, I still love and appreciate it. And I’ll probably bring it back into my life. It’s just more like, I have the time right now to be a lab rat, considering there’s not a lot else going on, as far as like, there are a lot of changes on the horizon and a lot of things I’m trying to change, but I still, with everything in the way it is, have the opportunity to still, I guess, to keep things interesting and not tailspin into endless boredom.

I’m trying to do some of these things now and trying to better understand myself during this period. So that’s the change for me that probably didn’t need four minutes to explain. But I would just encourage other people to, you know, I’m not getting to the tip section already. But I think it’s good to try that out. I mean, even just stop something for a couple of days, add something else in, whether that’s whatever, exercise, etc, etc. It’s just, it’s knowledge you can use moving forward. Speaking of moving forward, let us begin our episode.

Allison Green 11:43
Yes, let us get out of the longest intro we’ve ever had. Apologies.

Christopher Mitchell 11:49
You know, what I actually don’t think was the longest intro we’ve ever had. In our maybe our first like, handful of episodes, I think we were still loose on format and trying to figure out what the hell was going on. I think we had a couple of 20 minuters, where I’m sure you know, if you’ve stuck through it with us during that period, you’re truly, truly a fan. We appreciate you for that.

Allison Green 12:08
And no worries if you’re someone who skips forward, and is like let me get to the meat of it. I love My Favorite Murder. It’s one of my favorite podcasts. But sometimes I’m like, Alright, girls, I know you’re great friends and you’re very funny, but I want blood. Let’s skip to the bloody parts. I need to listen to tales of gore to sleep. Okay, I don’t want your tales of friendship and what Netflix shows I should watch next. Okay. Just give me the blood and gore, so I can get a peaceful sleep. Okay.

Christopher Mitchell 12:36
I’m not looking for smile. I’m looking for vile.

Allison Green 12:43
laughs Oh man.

Christopher Mitchell 12:44
I thought that was pretty good. So anywho, I think this episode is somewhat related in a way to the I’m Anxious About the Future episode in the sense that a lot of what we’re nervous about as it relates to change, of course, it’s not, you know, we can’t make changes to the past, however much we might try and trick our memories. The changes happen in the future. And so, there’ll probably be a touch of overlap there.

But I actually think, you know, the more that I thought about it and prepared for this episode, the more I thought they’re actually quite distinct in a lot of ways as well, because, I guess the one thing that I think where there is some potential overlap is the idea that when anything’s going on, you know, change, the future, whatever, wherever there is an empty canvas…. people who experience anxiety often have a tendency to fill that canvas with potential negativity because of that wonderful propensity towards catastrophizing.

Yeah, some very upsetting drawings on that canvas.

Yeah, that canvas is….

Allison Green 13:40
An art therapist would be like, oh yikes.

Christopher Mitchell 13:48
We’re gonna be charging you three times your going rate based on what I’ve seen.

Allison Green 13:51
Also I’m gonna need workers comp.

Christopher Mitchell 13:56
Yeah. So I guess, do you want to open up there and talk a little bit about that relationship to the negativity that we can sometimes already give to the changes that are happening without giving the change a fair chance?

Allison Green 14:06
Yeah, for sure. I think, well, first of all, I just want to say that there are basically two kinds of changes that we’re going to be discussing in the episode. There’s active changes where you choose to make a change, where there’s a decision involved, and usually a long decision making process involved with that change, like so like when you decide to change careers or change locations or change any major thing in your life, that is one type of change.

And then there’s change that is passive change that just happens to you, like a death or a global pandemic, or, you know, losing your job, things that kind of are out of your hands. So we’ll be talking about both of them.

For me right now, I just made a very active change in my life, so I think I’ll probably be talking about it a little more through that lens, but I can definitely speak to the other lens, having gone through this past year, having had several changes that were out of my hands happen and how that kind of affected me. So we’re going to be talking about both of those things.

But speaking about the first kind of change, the more active change, it’s really difficult because we have a propensity to tell stories about ourselves when we’re anxious people, right? And I think that when we’re thinking of making a change, we really second guess it, we really doubt our decision making abilities, we doubt our logical skills, our reasoning, and we worry that we’re going to make a decision that we regret, I think, is the big thing, at least for me. So when I’m trying to make a decision or a change in my life, my big thing is like, Am I making the wrong choice, as if there’s like some sort of certificate from the universe I can get this says right or wrong and has like a binary zero or one next to it, you know.

Christopher Mitchell 16:03
I’m still looking for it, by the way, I’m still waiting.

Allison Green 16:05
Yeah, still waiting for my certified letter from the universe. I don’t know where it is, I must have gotten lost up your anus. But… sorry, I’m five years old when I’m jet lagged, apparently.

Christopher Mitchell 16:16
I think there’s a lot of good points there. I know, classic anxiety, you’re being hard on yourself for jet lag, I think you’re bringing up some good points. So five year old Allison for the win.

But, you know, I think when I think about when you’re talking about all that, and it’s something that I have to be conscious of, and I think generally people with anxiety at large will understand well, is that oftentimes, when it comes to change, it’s a lot easier not to be in that active role. Because if you are actively making change, and it doesn’t go the way you want, you immediately get to blame yourself for why your X, Y and Z and why you, you know, failed yourself and all of this and all that goes with it.

On the other hand, if you basically do your best to be your own sort of hermit, or you know, just sort of basically brace yourself and let life happen to you, then you really have a lot of bills and excuses, because something happened to you, and you’re a victim. It’s difficult when we’re active to be able to revert to that victim role, because you’re the one who took leadership.

However, there’s a decent argument to be made that we want to do our best despite anxiety to be in that active role to make those decisions. Because I do think at the end of the day, they are easier to be dealt with emotionally, at least for me, there’s an old expression, which is a little bit too “camp counselor-y”, for me, like you’d rather regret something you did something you didn’t do. But I do think it holds a lot of validity.

But I also know that can be it’s not always true for me. I mean, there’s some decisions I’ve made that I can obsess over. But I also need to remember just knowing myself well that I can sometimes get to this state where I think all decisions big or small, you know, whatever they are, they’re not reversible. But the truth is that the decisions we make, we can always … I’m hesitant to use the word pivot because it’s the most overused word of the pandemic, perhaps.

Allison Green 18:09
Yeah

Christopher Mitchell 18:09
But I do think that, you know, there’s a sense of which like, for example, if I finished one project, let’s say, I decided that I wanted to write a book, and I put all this effort into writing a book. And for one reason, and that just didn’t work out. Well, that’s not to say that the experience there of learning how to format a book and research a book, and all of that kind of stuff isn’t going to pay dividends for me later. It’s not as if it was just wasted time, that decision is not useless and futile, because I didn’t do that and decided to do something else. And in fact, if you listen to almost any podcast with somebody who was you know, quote unquote, successful, it’s like I haven’t… I’ve yet to find someone who wasn’t going through some turbulent period where something didn’t work out, but that was the catalyst for what did.

Allison Green 18:49
Yeah, yeah. And to use another cliche, everywhere you go, there you are. No matter what changes you make in your life, no matter how big of a zig or zag you take, or life takes you on, you’re still the same person, you still have the same thought patterns, you still have the same experiences. And you’re still going to… even if your life throws you a big, what feels like a hurdle, you still have everything that you’ve had, and will have, you know what I mean?

It’s like, yes, there will be a change, but you will change during the course of figuring out how to navigate that change. But who you were before hasn’t changed. You know what I mean? You’re still the same person. You can still draw on that same set of knowledge and experiences and things that you’ve learned to navigate that change if that makes sense. I feel like I’m going in a weird…

Christopher Mitchell 19:47
No, no, no.

Allison Green 19:48
Weird old string theory moment…

Christopher Mitchell 19:52
No, you don’t. You don’t have to start shaming….

Allison Green 19:53
I haven’t gone quantum?

Christopher Mitchell 19:54
… you’re in the present shaming Jet Lag Allison. You can listen out afterwards when you’re editing and you can decide, but you can’t do it live.

Allison Green 20:04
Okay, okay.

Christopher Mitchell 20:05
I’m able to do that. I can call you out and be like, That makes no sense. But I’m still with you, I’m still following you. All right.

And I think actually, the point you make is fair, the idea that we are always bringing ourselves, you know, forward moment to moment. But there is a snowball effect, right? Where our experiences add up, and you gain this knowledge moving forward that you don’t even necessarily realize you have until these sort of culminating moments of change where you, oftentimes there’s things that I’ve learned or something I’ve understood that I didn’t even really know, I understood until it was a critical moment.

And that’s why it’s trying to learn and move forward is always so helpful. You know, I think, during this period, particularly the last like year or so, I’ve learned a lot about myself, I think there were lower lows that I thought there would be in higher highs than I thought there would be.

And what I tended to realize this, during some of these changes, which felt initially insurmountable, I think there’s a sense in which I found a lot of resilience that I didn’t know necessarily existed. And kind of at the beginning of the pandemic, to be honest with you, when I understood the timeframes that we’d be dealing with… and that’s not to say that there’s a bow wrapped on this yet, because there’s still work to be done.

But, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, I really genuinely thought as a person that the struggles I was going to have at that moment, might be insurmountable for me, you know, that I wasn’t going to make it through or whatever. And then I had to start breaking down, Well, what the hell does that mean? You know, not gonna make it through, right? Like, all I can do is wake up each day, and figure out how I can best get through that day. And there are going to be shit days.

Allison Green 21:38
Yeah

Christopher Mitchell 21:38
And there were, but at the end of the day, I do feel like, there was a sense in which I’m going to carry forward and understanding that I think I’m more resilient to change than I thought I was.

I mean, I spent a lot of my life creating change. But I haven’t necessarily been in the position where change was sort of happening to me, and I had to react. And in this situation, you know, I’m just kind of… I’m at least, encouraged by the idea that, perhaps it’s a common thing we’re all carrying with us that when something you know, big and catastrophic is gonna strike, we initially go to that place where we think, Well, I’m not the person that’s gonna get through this, I’m not resilient enough. And yet, you take it one day at a time, one hour at a time, one minute at a time, and somehow you get through.

Allison Green 22:19
Yeah, I’m a big believer in life, that energy sort of cancels each other out, you know, like matter and antimatter, like good cancels out bad. And we all end up in sort of like a neutral state, sort of, and I think ultimately, this pandemic, of course, the human toll is horrible. And I know that if you’ve lost someone close to you, maybe it’s too close to see that there are things that have come from this period in life that you can grow from, and be like, well, this year took this away from me, but it gave me this.

And I do think that I think I’m able [to see that] more clearly now, because we’re closer to the end of it, you know, I’m lucky enough to have people in my family who are fully vaccinated and friends who are on their way to becoming fully vaccinated. So I feel a lot of privilege … not having to worry about people quite as much. And so maybe that’s where my optimism is kind of coming from, but I do feel like through this period of very intense forced change, it actually did help me get a lot of clarity.

And again, like, I don’t want to make light of the people who really suffered and you know, some people have lost very close loved ones or multiple loved ones in their family, but I don’t want to make their death like my growing experience or anything, you know, like that.

Christopher Mitchell 23:51
Yeah.

Allison Green 23:51
But I do think that any sort of change of this magnitude, you really have to question what it is you’re doing on this planet, because it makes you so aware of, yes, mortality, but also just how quick things can change, and…

Christopher Mitchell 24:11
Purpose.

Allison Green 24:11
Yeah, and you need to have a purpose for each day as well. And you need to find your reason for being, especially if what you were doing and being changes very fast, you know, like I used to travel for a career and then suddenly, I couldn’t travel and writing about past travels was kind of fruitless, because no one was reading about it.

So it made me really question myself. And in that process of questioning myself, I naturally had to make a lot of changes. And ultimately, for me, I think they ended up being for the positive because I used to be a bit of a workaholic. And it made me realize that I have other ways of finding joy and my life and doing things and I have other talents and skills that I’m interested in exploring. And I like rest, and I deserve rest.

Christopher Mitchell 25:11
Yeah.

Allison Green 25:11
And it helps me realize all of these things over the course of a painful year for sure. I’m lucky that my year was a lot less painful than others, and that I was really sheltered from a lot of the worst of it, I didn’t lose anyone particularly close to me, or I didn’t have to make difficult choices in order to sustain myself financially. Like I didn’t have to go to a job that felt unsafe. But so I guess I’m speaking from my own perspective only, which is the only way I can speak. But I am trying to be mindful, because I know not everyone has had the distance from it to be able to be like, “I learned something,” I know a lot of people…

Christopher Mitchell 25:53
A pause, and so on.

Allison Green 25:54
Yeah, I think a lot of people are just like, no, this just sucks. And it’s okay, if you feel that way, you’re totally within your right to just be like, this just fucking sucks because it does fucking suck. But I think being forced to deal with this change and having no choice, no say in the matter was actually sort of healing for me as a perfectionist with workaholic tendencies, who has like a propensity to try to control every outcome.

Christopher Mitchell 26:23
So while you were talking there, I was thinking about an article I’d read kind of prior to talking about this, and really just a lot of tenets from, like Stoicism and some of the things that I appreciate. I guess, this isn’t necessarily Stoicism or from this article, but just to speak broadly, first, to give some context, I think there’s a way in which, you know, change is inevitable. And if you want to put a real emphasis on or underline something, I mean, change really is life, like life is change. That’s what it is, right?

I mean, we’re not, no matter how much we want things to stay the same. You know, you might always want to be 21, working in Fiji, I don’t know, you know, maybe that was a good year for you. I don’t know whose life that is, I want it.

But like, you might always want that. But that’s just not a reality, right. And so change is inevitable, and so avoiding the idea that change is going to happen is not helpful, either. So we have to accept that idea that change is going to happen. And I think one sentence that caught my eye from what I was reading, there was just that, you know, in any situation that we’re facing, particularly as it relates to change, one thing that we can do to better help ourselves get through is to take a second to actually evaluate our level of control.

What is it you have control over? Right? And I think it’s really easy to say, Okay, this is the situation and be fatalistic, and just say, well, it’s totally out of my hands, or be really proactive and say, Well, this is how I’m going to, you know, do A, B, and C, but I actually think the correct approach is to look at both sides and be like, what is it in this situation I really have control over? And what is it that I don’t have control over?

And so this might be a situation where, like to give a personal example, like when my grandma was passing away, you know, I knew that I didn’t have control over anything from a medical perspective. And so I had to let go of that side of things and understand, you know, from all my grandparents, really just in general, I don’t have any grandparents left. And I think, in the passing, particularly of my, my grandma on both sides, it was a situation where I was pretty close to both of them. And I knew that from the medical side of things, it’s not my job to go in there and play doctor, but what what do I have control over? And that’s making sure that I can share love with them.

And so in that situation, is the situation difficult? 100%. Is it a situation that I want to be able to change desperately? Of course it is, but the easiest thing for me to do is to sit down and think, “Well, what do I have control over?”. I can visit more, I can call more I can let this person know they’re loved, and understand that that part of the things that you know, are on the medical side of things, I don’t have control over that. I think that’s, you know, that’s probably a more, you know, emotional or deep example that it necessarily needs to be but really, I don’t think it takes that much for us to sit down and to look at change and really genuinely evaluate our level of control.

Allison Green 29:20
Yeah, definitely. I think that’s important because no matter what happens to us in life, we can always choose how we want to show up for it, you know, and I mean, like, you even with things that you have the least control over like, if you find out you have cancer, you know, you can become fatalistic about it and just be like, okay, you know, it is what it is, whatever it’s just gonna happen… or you can really try to take an active role and fight your own fight. You know what I mean?

Christopher Mitchell 29:58
Like our guest we had, on, Rebecca.

Allison Green 29:59
Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Christopher Mitchell 30:00
She did an amazing job with that, like she was an inspiration. But she had a choice ultimately, right? And like the choice that she made, led to the outcome she desired.

Allison Green 30:09
Yes, exactly. And actually, the day that we recorded with Rebecca is actually strangely the day, about two hours later, that’s when I got the news that my stepsister passed away from cancer, which was just a very strange kind of coincidence. So I think the thing is, though, is that she fought too, of course, and that made every day of the life that she had, while it was shorter than of course,we all wish, to have a lot of meaning, you know, so even though their two outcomes were quite different. You know, Rebecca was able to recover from cancer, and my stepsister was not able, ultimately, they both showed up each day fighting.

Sorry, my dog is shaking things off in the in the corner. There’s a very, very large Bernese Mountain dog wandering around in the background, for those of you who heard that weird jingle.

Ultimately, though, while both faced with something that they couldn’t change, a change that had happened to them, they both made a decision how they’re going to show up each day. And even if it didn’t change the result, it still mattered because it changed how they lived each day of their life and how they showed up. And that’s ultimately the thing that we do have control over is how we show up each day.

Christopher Mitchell 31:33
Yeah, I agree. You know, honestly, some days I do wake up, and I feel like, I’ve been hit with a sledgehammer. And I’m like, I don’t have my brain that I need today to do what I was planning on doing. But in those instances, I do have control over, well, what can I do? What is it I can do today, that’s going to be all right?

And this is probably more applicable to the self employed individuals who listen to this. But if you have some autonomy in the way you’re building your days out, I mean, sometimes it can be as simple as that you wake up and you’re like, I have headache, I feel like crap, I’m not gonna do the creative work I want to do, and you go in a different direction.

Of course, that’s, you know, a little bit lower stakes than some of what we’ve been talking about which I think, the idea of change, I think it’s inevitable, we’re going to talk about some of these bigger topics that they just, they’re just naturally going to come in.

I don’t know if this is just maybe the way I conceptualize change. But I think sometimes when I think about something on the horizon, you know, there are… it’s something where I either am hungry for the answer, or I’m avoiding the answer. But there’s always the same questions, right. And in some cases, maybe this is the active and proactive side of things, I’m working towards getting the answer.

And then in other cases, I’m doing everything I can to avoid the fact that there’s going to be an answer in the first place, if that makes sense. And I think that’s a way I can think about changes, it’s the sort of question and answer sort of thing, and basically just try and figure out well, do I want influence on the answer?

Allison Green 33:01
Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 33:01
And, of course, can I influence the answer, right? But I’ve yet to find a situation where being proactive has hurt me. Again, some days I wake up, but I don’t have the tools to do it. And that’s perfectly fine, too. But sometimes, it’s the strangest thing which can help you know, you are feeling overwhelmed, and so you make the decision to go for, you know, a lengthy walk to clear your head. And voila, like what you were stressing about, it sort of all crystallizes at once. And I think you mentioned or alluded to before, or this was possibly in the episode we cut, which I’m slowly getting over….

Allison Green 33:38
laughs Chris did not handle that change well.

Christopher Mitchell 33:43
I did not handle that change very well. You had mentioned before how you’re somebody who spends a lot of time thinking about something, but you don’t really vocalize it until you’re certain about it.

Allison Green 33:55
Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 33:55
And so it can seem from the outside, like, it can be a bit of a rash decision. And so people may who don’t know you well, or weren’t part of that process might be questioning. Well, that seems like a rash decision…

Allison Green 34:08
Yeah,

Christopher Mitchell 34:08
But in reality, it’s something you’ve taken, like almost endless time to think about probably way too much time to think about to come to a conclusion. And I think in thinking about the lens, that question answer sort of thing, when like, there probably is a tremendous relief, in a sense for you, or anybody with anxiety, just to say, Here’s finally here’s an answer like that. I’m gonna go in this direction, because I can no longer spin in circles mentally. I’m going for it. You know? I wonder if that’s like a… I guess you can speak to that for a second before I fill in the blank for you.

Allison Green 34:44
Yeah, no, I definitely… I’m a ruminator. I think a lot before I make any move. I’m probably like the most annoying chess player on the planet. You know, like I’m just, it takes ages for me. I remember watching The Queens Gambit. And I was like, wait, it’s timed when they do it professionally? That’s so stressful.

Christopher Mitchell 35:08
Yeah.

Allison Green 35:08
I was someone who was like, when I would play with my dad, I would sit there for like 10 minutes to the point where my dad was like, This isn’t fun, just move something.

Christopher Mitchell 35:15
laughs

Allison Green 35:17
But I’m really overly analytical a lot of the time. I think a lot of people with anxiety are because they feel like there’s this right outcome, their certified letter, that if they just think hard enough, they’ll get to the right answer, and then they’ll know what change they have to make, right.

And the thing is, is a lot of that is internal. And so I’ve made a lot of really big changes in my life, but they were always — when I had control over them, they were always a long time coming, you know, I left California to move to New York. And that was a big change. But it was a long time coming, because I knew from an early age that I wanted to, you know, live far away in a totally different state and climate and people and everything.

And I made the decision to quit my teaching job and travel and start a blog. But I thought about that decision every day for like, over a year. At first I planned to like teach abroad for a bit, but then I switched over to being like, I’m going to skip the teaching and just go straight into traveling. But that whole decision, it was like a year in the making. And my decision to move back to California was like at least six months in the making.

So I think about things for a long time. But then I do them very suddenly, with like a very resolute thing. It’s kind of like a roller coaster, you go up very slowly. And then once I hit that point of the apex, I just like, rush down, and I’m just off to the races.

And I kind of… one thing that I think I am good at is, I worry so much that when I get to that down part, I’m gonna look back and worry and regret and rue and ruminate. But I’m actually pretty good at not doing that. I usually feel like I’ve made the right choice and the right change by the time I’ve gotten to that point, probably because I’ve literally spent months doing the pros and cons. But I’m pretty good at being like, What’s done is done. You know, I think I’ve kind of internalized that.

Christopher Mitchell 37:30
It’s funny, you mentioned that. I’m picturing.. you make a big decision and announce it and somebody messaged you and like, have you thought about this angle? And you’re like, oh, young grasshopper…

Allison Green 37:46
Yeah, please see pages 45 through 169 of my journal. Okay.

But yeah, I map out like every contingency. I’m a very, very thorough planner and thinker. But sometimes I forget to let other people into my thinking. And so then people are just like, what the fuck Allison? And I’m like, Oh, yeah, I was gonna, this was, you know, this, I was always gonna quit my job and travel, like, I wasn’t gonna be a teacher my whole life, that was never gonna happen. And people like, I had literally no idea. You never told me this.

Because I think with changes, I don’t like to commit to changes until I’m ready to, you know, because there’s that feeling that you can’t go back, you know, or like, you can go back. But it’s like with a sense of shame or failure. Like, it’s like your tail between your legs, right? So you want to be sure of the change you’re making. And so that leaves you to really, really spend a lot of time ruminating and wondering and whatnot. And definitely not a safe space for people with anxiety.

Christopher Mitchell 38:56
I guess it’s like, maybe the takeaway then, or one takeaway from the episode is like, you know, on the one hand, we need to do some mapping and some thinking and make sure that we’re taking the time to think through decisions, but also understand the propensity to just… there’s a certain amount of time where thinking is not going to do you any more good.

It’s just the only thing that you can do is, is action, you know, action related. I think about it, like from a food perspective, right? If you’re a chef, well, there’s only so many damn times that you can touch up a recipe before you have to serve the meal to somebody, you know. And it’s like, at a certain point, like whether or not you think it’s going to be a good meal or not starts to not matter. You just need to put it out there and somebody else can tell you. And then of course, the wonderful thing is if someone’s like, Hey, you know, like, maybe calm it down on the paprika, you know, like, it’s not like you have to burn the menu in front of them or, or you know, or blow apart and be like, no, like, literally, it’s a small adjustment.

Allison Green 39:13
Chris is not allowed to open a restaurant. Chris is not allowed.

Christopher Mitchell 40:04
A Hungarian one I could laughs Paprika, it’s a paprika reference. Anyways, this is…

Allison Green 40:11
I know, but I just don’t want to eat there, I’m not a paprika…

Christopher Mitchell 40:15
That’s a lot of paprika.

Allison Green 40:19
So much paprika, they’re too proud of paprika. Paprika to me, it’s just like, it’s like salt, you know what I mean.

Christopher Mitchell 40:27
If we’re not careful, our travel writer asides gonna come out too heavily here, we better back it up a little bit.

I think that metaphor does serve a fairly important point, right where it’s like, it’s that balance between understanding, you know, you should take some time to figure out how you want to build a dish, but ultimately, you have to serve it.

And how we deal with that, to me, that reminds me of a lot of other episodes we’ve talked about around like meditation and some proactive things that we can, you know, some things that we can be proactive with and build into our life to make sure that we’re just taking those deep breaths.

But I do feel like, you know, once we build out those systems for dealing with the day to day, it does become a hell of a lot easier to take some of those steps forward. And of course, like, you can’t put a price on support structures as well, you know, of people who, you know, are there for you unconditionally. And I think that’s been difficult during this period, as well. Because, you know, not seeing people, just even seeing their initial reaction.

Like I went walking yesterday with my best buddy in Toronto, I just hadn’t seen him forever. And I just was, you know, not necessarily the, I wouldn’t say terrible mindset, but I just needed to get out of my place for a second. So we walked two meters apart down Queen Street in Toronto, and while we were walking, ran into an old friend of both of ours, who was walking along with her boyfriend, who I’d never met before. And I hadn’t seen her in, like 18 months or so.

And in my head, I kind of just like I built out this narrative that like, Oh, well, I guess like when this all resumes, and I see people again, like, I hope people remember me. And when I saw her and saw her reaction, and her eyes just lit up, and I was like, my heart was warmed to the core. And then, you know, this really endearing moment, she turns to her boyfriend, and she’s like, this is Chris, this is Chris Mitchell. And he’s like, Oh, shit, man. It’s great to finally meet you. And I was like, Oh, my God, like, in my head. I kind of thought, you know, like, this good friend of mine might not remember me. And then you get in front of somebody and you realize, like, holy shit. So that’s my side tangent that I just kind of went down. We get one per episode.

Allison Green 42:38
Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, let me use up mine.

Christopher Mitchell 42:42
I think you’ve already used yours up.

Allison Green 42:43
Okay, I claim another. Do over.

Christopher Mitchell 42:47
I grant it.

Allison Green 42:49
I pull the jet lag card. But it’s related. It’s related. One thing I think is scary about change, is it forces us to reconceptualize things that we sort of accepted as just fact, or just didn’t even question.

And so for me, it was a really big change for me to come home, because I’ve lived away from home since I was 17, I never spent more than two months back home, since I left for college a couple months before I turned 18.

And I guess it was just part of my narrative, to be an independent person, you know, to be following my dreams, I had to be far, you know, I had to be slightly uncomfortable, like I had to be doing something that pushed my limits or stretched my boundaries or, you know, was in some way challenging, you know, and that that’s what made me an interesting person.

It didn’t even cross my mind that I could still be an interesting person who grows and like, also lives in the place that I grew up, you know what I mean? And so that was a really difficult thing for me, to kind of come around to, was making the choice to make the change of coming back to live at home and living with my parents for a while.

While I kind of get back on my feet and decide what I want to do next with my life. I wouldn’t say I feel any shame about living with my parents or anything. But it does feel kind of strange just because I have to kind of question these things that I just accepted about myself, you know, and realize that I had created this mental equivalency that only existed in my head where like, you know, in order to be interesting and valued and whatever, I had to be constantly challenging myself and struggling in different environments and could never be comfortable or, like safe and not changing in certain ways, you know, that deciding to be fixed in one place was somehow like almost like a failure in my mind.

And I had to be like, wait, that’s completely made up. And it took the the change of the pandemic, to make me realize, oh, like, there’s so much to be said, for home, you know, there’s so much to be said, for being around family, and having that support. And I think I really took it for granted up until the point where it was like, Well, technically, you can see your family, but also you might die in the process, and you might kill them, you know. Kind of changes things.

Christopher Mitchell 45:42
Very, just very run of the mill mundane details.

Allison Green 45:47
Yeah. So that was a big thing that really kind of I’ve been working through is realizing that I could make that change in my life and still be the person that I wanted to be, you know?

Christopher Mitchell 46:00
Yeah, yeah, I think that I mean, this probably just comes down to the idea that I just, I keep coming to during this period, which is like, for a lot of people, during this time, whatever was beside your name in your bio, of who the hell you were got scratched out, burned down, turned upside down, and whatever.

And we had to figure out so who the hell am I now? So who the hell is Chris without travel? And who the hell is Alison without living abroad? Like, we have to answer these questions for ourselves. And I actually think it’s not easy, but it’s good.

Like a silly exercise, you know, like write your bio 10 different ways, right? To talk about 10 different things you’re good at, you know, all of this kind of stuff. It helps to conceptualize, you know, we all have our own misgivings and concerns about how things are gonna unfold. But we’re all ultimately, we’re not one dimensional people. We’re like, multi multi dimensional people. So it’s a fun exercise to think about, you know, that bio, that thing that’s beside our name, what we are who we are is changing. So..

Allison Green 47:05
That made me have a slight bit of anxiety, you know, the exercise of writing 10 bios, I was like, No, no!

Christopher Mitchell 47:11
Okay, well, in that case, don’t, absolutely don’t do that if it’s gonna make you anxious.

But I mean, that even just not even in terms of work, but like, give 10 depictions of who you are. You’re someone who loves… Of course, has like a sadistic attraction to horror films and bloody podcasts with crime, etc. That’s one bio. You know, you have cooking, Allison, anxiety Allison, so many different ways that we’re all made up.

Allison Green 47:41
I’m just a Sichuan cooking murderino.

Christopher Mitchell 47:49
That’s what I always thought of you as.

Allison Green 47:54
Well, now I know what I should change my bio to on, you know, on my website.

Christopher Mitchell 48:00
Yeah. Yeah, there was one quote that I thought was applicable to everything we were talking about. And I won’t mention that this will wrap a bow on things because I know we have a big problem with that, Allison has a big problem with that.

Allison Green 48:15
I don’t like bows, guys.

Christopher Mitchell 48:17
Hates bows. The quote was basically that, it was from a doctor who was writing for Psychology Today, who was saying that, anytime you’re out of your comfort zone, you’re going to feel anxious. But just because you feel anxious doesn’t mean that something bad’s gonna happen.

Allison Green 48:33
Mmhmm, yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 48:33
And I think that’s an important distinction to make, like, for sure, change is anxiety inducing. But that anxiety you feel about change does not correlate or does not mean that something bad’s gonna happen. And in fact, in many cases, where we’re like, something bad’s gonna happen, I’m anxious as shit about this change… something good happens, you know, as well, or good is the primary thing that happens, right?

Allison Green 49:00
Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 49:00
So I thought that was an important thing to like, we feel anxiety. And we’ve talked about this many, many times in the show, you feel anxiety, and you look for the problem, right? And sometimes I think, when we’re anxious and nervous and excited about something, we create the problem before the problem’s even arrived. So something to think about.

Allison Green 49:20
Yeah, I think with anxiety, we tend to look at it as like a really big problem, right? And even in the thing, it’s like it’s a disorder. It’s something we struggle with. And I do think I struggle with it. But at the same time, I’m also trying to think of my anxiety as kind of like a friend that just…

Christopher Mitchell 49:50
…Very protective.

Allison Green 49:50
Speaks at the wrong times and just is very protective of me, because anxiety is honestly — when you break it down, it’s an over-inflated response to perceived threats, you know, and I mean, it is your brain’s way of trying to protect yourself from things that are scary, especially change.

And because generally, you don’t want to change because whatever has been working for you is working if you’re alive, you know, so anxiety brain is like but let’s… let’s stay alive, let’s keep doing the thing that keeps us alive, and you’re like brain, just just because I do something different doesn’t necessarily mean I’m gonna die and brain’s like, no you’re definitely gonna die, let’s not do that.

Brain is just dramatic, you know, and, but learning to sort of be in dialogue with your anxiety and be like, okay, you get a seat at the table, but like, you don’t get to bang the gavel and make all the decisions. You know, there’s a talking stick, you can talk for a little bit, get the talking stick, and you have to shut up and then I can like, decide how I want to manage you. Like if I want to listen to you, if you’re telling me something that’s important, because sometimes anxiety does tell us things that are super important. But most of the times it just runs its goddamn mouth. It just loves to blabber, you know.

Christopher Mitchell 51:11
That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. I think that’s a really good point, and probably a good one to end on. But the only thing I was just going to, to add on there is I always kind of hear that voice of anxiety. But it’s it’s always different levels, right.

And when you’re talking about like the speaking stick, like if I am just on a… like if I’m drinking a lot and crushing caffeine left, right and center, well, then I know that that voice at the table doesn’t have a gavel, they have a stick, which I’m going to be beaten with.

Like, like, it’s just gonna be merciless, right. And so I have to be, I understand what the table looks like. And the table is not always going to be how I want it to be. But I think at least I’m getting better at understanding, at least not fully shutting down the voice.

You’re right. Sometimes there’s value in what’s being communicated too and I guess, at the very least, the better that we can separate ourselves from that voice, the better off we’re going to be because I think, probably even a couple of years ago, I’m not sure I would have been able to disassociate myself enough from it.

Allison Green 52:13
Mmhmm, Oh yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 52:14
Like, that there was a voice at all. And now sometimes I can almost be comical with it. I know I listen to a lot of podcasts, I read a lot of books around mental health, of course, and stuff like that. And sometimes I you know, I hear people recommending like to, like, give that voice a name or something. And like, I’m not there yet. Personally, I think everyone needs to do what works for them. But I am, I am getting good enough at understanding myself now to be able to say like, I will literally go to Bri and be like, this is what’s going on. And we can probably both agree that this is anxiety driven. And she’s like, 100%.

Allison Green 52:47
Yeah, yeah. One thing I will say that I am loving about the change of Coronavirus is that the fact that I wear a mask hides the fact that I can just like talk to myself when I’m anxious and just be a full on crazy person. And no one’s really gonna notice.

As I was like, running through the airport in Istanbul trying to make a tight connection, I was just talking to myself the whole time, you know, and just trying to calm myself down. Because if I wasn’t talking to myself, anxiety brain was like gonna go into like, complete meltdown mode because as I got off the plane, it said my flight was boarding. And then as I was going through security, it was starting to say last call, even though there was still like 45 minutes to go, it’s just one of those long international fights where the process was like an hour.

So, you know, seeing the like, last call was like, gasp Oh my God. And so I was just, you know, like repeating to myself, like things like the gate number and just being like, okay, you’re doing what you need to do, you’re walking, you’re on the path, you’re going, you know where to go, you’re going to Gate A3, this is how we walk. Like, I was just like saying, just really stupid things and basic things to myself, just to keep myself from having a panic attack, because it was like, at that point, I couldn’t run because just I had too much stuff. And I have too much pain and like stuff where like, I just wasn’t gonna be able to go fast. It was just more fruitful to just walk and walk quickly and like with purpose, but I just talked to myself the whole time and it was great because my mask, you know, made me look normal, because I was going fast enough that no one was like, What is that stream of words that woman is muttering?

And, frankly, who even cares? Honestly, after all of this is over who even cares? Like I think that’s one thing that all sort of take away from all of this is, you know, mask or no mask, talk to yourself. It’s great

Christopher Mitchell 54:45
Fuck it.

Allison Green 54:46
Fuck it, talk to yourself, do what you need to do to calm yourself down.

Christopher Mitchell 54:50
Do what you need to do. I mean, quite honestly, I would probably wouldn’t have been comfortable starting this podcast before this period. I didn’t necessarily want to be… I think I was still ashamed of the fact that I experienced anxiety. And then a couple months into this, I was like, You know what, fuck it, I really don’t even care like, I am who I am. And maybe we can help some people and make some people laugh and that was enticing to me.

I like the idea of you saying words out loud to yourself, everyone, I think probably needs a crux, like my thing literally is I will just find a minute, close my eyes and just breathe in and out. And I’ll just go in, out. And just over and over again until I’ve calmed down and regulated because I find that, like you with talking to distract your, you know, the monkey mind from going crazy, for me if I just focus on in, out, in, out, in out. It’s kind of like I think about my mind putting up elbows and warding off all the thoughts like, Well, blahlblahlalalala.

You know, I’m just like, I’m putting up elbows and like in in, it makes a difference. I mean, we all have our tactics. I like that you brought that up to finish. I think that’s a I think it’s a good way to finish this episode. This is for sure, reminiscent to me of an episode that we might repeat down the line when other changes are going on. I think this will probably serve us well again, because change is life, life is change. So there’s never going to be … if we’re looking at, you know, I think we’ve done some episodes on like Daylight Savings Time and stuff, probably not applicable all the time. But I think you could justify that any episode on change we ever did would be timely in some regard. So that’s probably all you need to know about change.

Allison Green 56:35
Right. Yeah, yeah. So we might still be anxious about it in the future, if certain life events…

Christopher Mitchell 56:41
I suspect we will.

Allison Green 56:43
Yeah. When we run out of ideas on our Google Doc, we may have to revisit this one. But yeah, I keep getting anxious about new things every week. So I think it’s like every week, we take one off, but add two or three more. So I think we’ll be good… I mean, it’s a good thing for this podcast and for our listener, but it might not be a good thing for our brains. But whatever.

Christopher Mitchell 57:08
I mean, we’re in it now, so

Allison Green 57:10
We’re in it. We’re in it to win it.

Christopher Mitchell 57:12
It’s too late. So I suppose this is where we shall do a little back-patting. Yeah,

Allison Green 57:19
I will go first. I’ll volunteer actually.

Christopher Mitchell 57:22
I would love it.

Allison Green 57:22
I am famous for shunting this onto to Chris. Typically, I haven’t prepared for something. And then I just shunt the responsibility on to Chris and run away.

Christopher Mitchell 57:31
Yeah

Allison Green 57:31
Usually because he politely like non-offers like a Canadian.

Christopher Mitchell 57:35
It’s true.

Allison Green 57:36
And I just accept and call his bluff. But this time I come prepared. Well, I did something super scary that I’m super proud of — besides my trip. I submitted my first collection of poems to a literary magazine for consideration.

Christopher Mitchell 57:57
Wow.

Allison Green 57:58
And so I’ve been writing poetry, on and off, mostly off since I was, I don’t know, maybe 18, 19. I wrote a lot of fiction as a kid. And then I really gravitated towards poetry in college. I think it’s like an ADHD thing, I can really only focus on like a moment and not like creating a world. I don’t have the attention span to maintain a world.

Christopher Mitchell 58:23
laughs

Allison Green 58:23
But I can like really zero in on a moment in time and get hyper specific, which is why poetry speaks to me as a medium. And I have always kept my poems very private. And this is the first time… I don’t know, I guess I just wanted with COVID, with all these changes in my life, I kind of wanted to sort of explore different facets of my identity. I don’t want to just be like Allison, the traveler, Allison, the blogger, Allison, the podcaster… I want lots of facets, like lots of things about me that make up who I am.

And I’m like, you know, this is something that’s always been important to me. So like, why don’t I prioritize it. And part of that means I have to kind of work with and against my brain simultaneously. So I have to kind of gamify it a bit and make it like a goal. And it’s a little bit interesting, because of the whole hobby episode that we did. It’s like kind of running a little bit counter to that. But for me, there’s so much shame wrapped up in sharing my poetry with the world and like admitting to the world that I write poetry, just because I think there’s kind of a little bit of a stigma, especially with women like oh, it’s just gonna be like some cheesy like, love poem shit or like, whatever, you know, there’s sort of like a little bit of like…

Christopher Mitchell 59:41
It’s not that, Allison? That’s what I assume…

Allison Green 59:45
Yeah, it’s like roses are red, violets are blue, if you don’t call me back, I’m gonna murder you. You know, stuff like that.

Christopher Mitchell 59:55
Deep, profound…

Allison Green 59:58
Yeah, so, anyway, I submitted, and I didn’t really freak out about it. I’m just like, all right, cool. They said, they’ll let me know in about 12 weeks. And so you know, I’m going to submit to some more magazines, I’m kind of just like going through the process of narrowing down, where I want to submit things to and what I want to submit, because I don’t have a ton of work, because my writing has been very intermittent. I’m not really consistent at all.

But yeah, I’m excited to explore that more, and try to bring that into who I am and what I do. So yeah, I’ll keep you guys updated if anything gets accepted, or not. Because I think rejection is fine, too. I’m actually like, collecting rejections. So it’s part of the goal too, is like I read a article about why someone’s goal is to collect 100 rejections, because you know, you need to kind of collect rejections in order to get some acceptances as well. So, yeah, working on that.

Christopher Mitchell 1:00:58
Fantastic. Well, thanks for sharing that. I mean, I didn’t know that. So I’m excited, proud, all kinds of things like… do I get to be proud now, now that we’ve recorded like?

Allison Green 1:01:07
You get to be proud. Yeah.

Christopher Mitchell 1:01:09
Great. Thank you. Well, then I am. I was anyways, but I’m happy to have you cosign that as well.

Allison Green 1:01:14
You have permission.

Christopher Mitchell 1:01:15
Thank you. Thank you. So one thing I would say just first is, if anyone is listening, and also wants to take part in this, feel free to pause right now, before I give my answer and think about one thing you’re patting yourself on the back for, I really want to encourage this, the check ins and the back patting, to be like something that all listeners are taking part in.

And maybe we can find some fun way to share later. But maybe that’s just personal and no one wants to share theirs, we’re just the crazy ones who want to share that kind of stuff. But anyways, I would encourage everyone to do that. I’, not gonna have a backpatting story that’s going to match that in any way, nor would I try, I think that’s wonderful. That’s a great step forward.

The only thing that I can really think about that, I want to pat myself on the back for is just I’m just starting to feel a bit more grounded. Again, I think there was a small period there of probably a couple of weeks that I just wasn’t totally feeling myself, I guess, feeling like myself wasn’t the norm. It was like I was grasping for normal from a place that was outside of it. And now I feel like I’m kind of back in that seat.

And I think there’s a lot to do with just sort of putting caffeine on the side and alcohol and everything and just sort of give myself a second to gather myself, but I feel pretty gathered. And you know, in the spirit of the episode, I don’t know what’s coming, you know, but I feel like, I’ve done my best to be prepared for what’s coming. And I know that I can only do my best, but I feel like I understand myself well enough that you know, when things arise, you know, hopefully I’ll be able to handle them.

And I guess that’s a feeling of like, a bit of a calm feeling like I guess maybe something like you know, if you’re a captain who has been through enough storms, you kind of feel like well, maybe like maybe I won’t be terrified of storms all the time. That’s not to say that I’ve experienced any more storms than anybody else, just more that I may be taking a step back to start thinking about all of that a little bit deeper than do I need the rain jacket today, you know, sort of thing. And then thinking about this is the extended storm metaphor, which which I’m asking you to continue to embark on. I hope you’re still with me.

Allison Green 1:03:19
Embark, that was good.

Christopher Mitchell 1:03:20
Thank you. Thank you.

Allison Green 1:03:22
Was that intentional? Or not? The embark.

Christopher Mitchell 1:03:24
It was not. Yeah, it wasn’t, but I should have lied and said it was, I guess that’s really all, you know, me I’m like very, very careful of not speaking in definites. And, you know, I don’t like to tempt fate by saying this is going to happen and this is not going to happen.

All I can say is that based on what has happened, I feel more comfortable about the way that I’ll be able to deal with things in the future. And I’m patting myself on the back for I think re-grounding myself and getting to that place and hope to stay here.

You know, we talk a lot about peaks and valleys and stuff like that. But at the very least, you know, I think anybody hopes that their normal disposition or their the way that they wake up feeling more often than not resembles, you know, what they want to feel like and who they want to be. It’s not always going to happen, but at the very least, we’re celebrating. So I think we’ve done a good job of talking about change. I feel a little bit enlightened, I hope other people do as well. And…

Allison Green 1:04:18
I still feel like a sack of used, saggy, discarded skin. But… I think that’s just jet lag.

Christopher Mitchell 1:04:26
Oh, that’s just… I mean, that’s, that is a really alarming picture you painted. laughs I’m looking at you on video and I’m seeing a lot of Alison and not much of the skin stuff. So I wonder….

It’s over there, it’s over there. There’s a reason it’s waist up, you know

Okay. Got it. Well, on that note, we’ll thank everybody for tuning in again to this episode, and we’ll be back at the mic soon enough with more on the docket. Anything else you want to add?

Allison Green 1:05:00
No, I think that’s good. Thanks so much for listening. Thank you for bearing with us through this nuttier than usual I would imagine show. I appreciate everyone who followed the logic of my jet lag and found it endearing, maybe, hopefully, and not terrifying.

Christopher Mitchell 1:05:20
I think it was fine.

Allison Green 1:05:20
I think at times it was terrifying, but I hope it was mostly endearing. So I hope you enjoyed it anyway. And we just wanted to put out a podcast this week regardless. So even if it’s not always our most coherent work, we hope you enjoyed it. Anyway.

Christopher Mitchell 1:05:38
I think this was pretty coherent. We did some pretty messed up episodes at the beginning that were like, wild.

Allison Green 1:05:45
Yeah. Yeah. We are getting more on topic Chris Rudder would be proud. So…

Christopher Mitchell 1:05:51
Yeah, he would.

Allison Green 1:05:55
Well, thank you so much for listening. Alright, have a great week, everyone. We’ll see you next Thursday. Bye bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai